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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Boats are such a compromise. I'm sorry to bore you guys with this but, my hope is that by the end of this reasoning exersise, the answer I'm looking for will be readily apparent.

Displacement hulls are rock steady and have been around since the dawn of time. Noah's Ark was supposedly a heavy displacement hull. That's "testament" enough for the sea-worthiness of this hull design. Problem is, they're s-l-o-w because they don't get up on plane. A medium displacement hull, for example, calculates top speeds using the equation 1.34 X the square root of the water line. So a 25 foot medium displacement hull calculates out to a top speed of 5 X 1.34 or 6.7 knots/hr, the proverbial slow boat to China. Using this caculation, for a boat with this hull design to attain speeds of 30 knots, it would have to be 529 feet, not in my budget.

Semi-displacement or semi-planing hulls (depending on whether you're a half-full or half-empty kind of guy) are somewhat of a compromise within a compromise, not quite as stable as a displacement but you do pick up some speed...same boat of 25' now can accept a top spead of about 15 knots/hour, still in no ones book a speed-demon.

Then there's the planing hulls, the moderate-V and deep-V. These terms are menat to convey the amount of "V" (angle) at the transom. Typically, a moderate V will have no more than 15? of V, whereas a deep V, is between 20-24?. Those inbetween can go either way, depending on how the designer feels about classifying his design. The good news is that they are fast. Some 30 footers will run at speeds in excess of 50 knots/hr. The bad news is that they use a lot more fuel, they don't like going slow (the proverbial "wet ride"), and their manners in ruff seas are the worst.

OK, so the Admiral and I are looking for a seaworthy 23-29 foot cruising/fishing boat that will do at least 30 knots.

Sh$t, I'm sure the answer is in here somewhere. Help, I'm drowning.
 

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TonyDB said:
looking for a seaworthy 23-29 foot cruising/fishing boat that will do at least 30 knots.
A planing hull is the only one you mentioned that is capable of a 30kt cruise. What other choices do you have if that's important to you? Or am I missing something? I'm just learning about this, so I'm just asking.

This is kind of what I've gathered so far,,, the deep V will handle chop a lot better with less pounding, but rocks a lot more at drift. Either way it's a trade off. Other than the degree of deadrise at the bow, you also have to look at stern deadrise, beam, chine type, center of gravity, and overall weight.

It seems to me that if I were in the market, I'd prefer something that is going to be more steady at slow speeds/drift for fishing or sitting on the hook, and sacrifice a little on the top speed ride. Maybe a heavy, modified V with decent dead rise at the bow, low deadrise at the stern, fairly hard chine, low center of gravity and as wide a beam as I could find.
Seems like one put together like that wouldn't pound too bad, and yet be fairly stable at drift or anchor.

You've already done a lot of research and I'm sure you already know all this, just kind of thinking aloud here. Am I on track so far? You're still looking at pilot house setups, right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Bait, your right, it is the obvious choice and as such, I've been looking at Steiger, Judge, Maycraft, C-Hawk, and Parker in the pilot house design (so at least we can stay dry and warm), just to name a few.

Bait, you hit the nail on the head when you said..

A planing hull is the only one you mentioned that is capable of a 30kt cruise. What other choices do you have if that's important to you?
I guess what I'm not sure about is whether I really need that level of speed and should I sacrifice speed for additional seaworthiness. After all, I will be retired and I shouldn't be in any hurry. Also, my wife (the Admiral) is not a go-fast type. Whereas, I am, at least now. Fast cars and fast wom....strike that thought, my wife sometimes reads these threads. Anyway, I'm trying to convince myself that high speeds should not be a requirement.

So I've decided to look at a few displacement hulls. I came across this boat builder in the next town over, Biddeford ME, that builds a nice reasonably priced 26 footer in the medium displacement caterory. I've made arrangements to take a look at them this Saturday.

http://www.marinemart.com/general.html

The real answer, I hope, will become evident when I begin sea-trials next year.
 

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I try to stay away from these questions, because advising someone on a boat is like advising someone on a wife.... it all depends on what your looking for????? do you want comfort???? do you want speed?????? do you want something that will be faithfull year after year...or do you want beauty,as my old pappy used to say, a pretty boat is like a pretty girl...not always a good deal!!!!

My personal preferance is a mod V,it gives you a little bit of everything...but what do I know I've had the same boat since 1979!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Roc, you're so wise!!!

I try to stay away from these questions, because advising someone on a boat is like advising someone on a wife.... it all depends on what your looking for????? do you want comfort???? do you want speed??????
th_icon_loll.gif th_icon_loll.gif
 

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TonyDB said:
OK, so the Admiral and I are looking for a seaworthy 23-29 foot cruising/fishing boat that will do at least 30 knots.

Sh$t, I'm sure the answer is in here somewhere. Help, I'm drowning.
While no one can tell you what to get, we can help you to narrow things down.

First, forget that romantic notion of stable displacement hulls like the ark. It's just adding to your confusion. Unless full of cargo they rock and roll like crazy. The good news is that none of the boats you're looking at are really displacement hulls like this.

Those semi displacement/planing designs are basically lower powered planing hulls designed to give a good ride at lower speeds.

The best selection for you, as you've noted, is based on compromises. The key willl be where and how you mostly intend to use the boat. Inshore or offshore? Drifting for fluke or trolling for tuna? Give us more of that info and we can discuss how your choices will be affected.

Also, what is your and your wife's prior boat owning experience? That's probably the biggest factor.

FWIW, the boat that is perfect for me is my 1979 20' Seacraft MA. It took me about 5 years of on and off thinking about it and research to decide. All the while, having another boat helped identify shortcomings and other issues that I wanted addressed in my next purchase.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks to all who have weighed in on this.

Roger, just to bring you up to speed, no pun intended, I've done most of my boating on lakes. My brother and I had various aluminum and wooden runabouts starting when we were about 12 years old. 8 years ago my wife and I purchased a home on the ocean in southern Maine. Seven years ago we purchased an 18' Searay bow rider that's a good Saco river boat, and a fair-weather ocean runner. We slip it 2 miles up river. I have done my best to convert it to a make-do fishing boat adding rodholders and down-riggers. Because it is such a small boat we don't venture more than about 5 miles off-shore or more than 15 miles south or north of the river mouth.

We will be retired when we eventually do purchase our next boat (20 months). We would continue to use the boat, as we do now with added coastal cruising distances of 50-100 miles (sight-seeing) and off-shore capabilities of about 20-30 miles (possibly tuna fising, definately haddock and cod).

Most tell us that for coastal cruising in comfort of 100 miles or more, you want at least a 26 footer. However, I would like to keep the boat as small as possible to cut down on expenses and maintanence time. The shortest boat I'm considering is the Steigercraft new 21 foot deep V. This boat looks and feels bigger than stated. I expect that's because it has a an 8'6" beam and weighs in over 4,000 lbs. Powered with a single 225 Zuke 4-s, this boat sells for about 40 grand, less electronics, and tops out just shy of 50 mph. A vey nice boat at a great cost. But maybe not the boat for us.

The extreme from the Steigercraft is the General Marine boat I looked at this weekend. It's a semi-displacement full keeled 26 footer, 9'6" beam, weighing in a a whopping 7500 lbs. This semi-custom down-east cruiser is Niiiiice and set up for both coastal cruising and hard fishing. With a 210 HP inboard the builder reports a top speed of 29 knots and will take most seas at 20 knots in comfort. With interior teak and enclosed head, this boat is twice the boat the Stiegercraft is but at more than twice the price, $105,000 powered, it should be. Considering that it's a 26 foot semi-custom made boat, that's not bad. He just sold a 3 year old version of this boat with full electronics for $80,000. Something I would consider if available at our time of need.

BTW, those CC guys should check out General Marines 20 and 22 footers. Pretty close to Contendner and Mckee craftmanship but at 1/2- 3/4 the price. The builder mentioned that they're gearing up for a much larger CC, similar to Jupiters 37 foot behemoth. And for those with bigger sights for a cabin, General Marine has a new 36 foot mold and will be completely tooled to produce these babies in 3-4 months.

Well the wife and I will be going to the Boston Boat show in Feb. to continue our hunt for the perfect boat for us. I know you're out there. The General Marine 26 footer (they also offer a 24 footer but I don't think it's quite the boat the 26 footer is) is very close.
 

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sea sea rider said:
whats MA. ? 1979 20' Seacraft MA. I know Seacrafts.
But how well do you know SeaCrafts? ;)

MA = Master Angler

It's configuration includes a taller gunwhale cap than "normal."
Thats the story in '78~'80 with Potter hulls. The newer version of the MA produced by Tracker lacks this feature and is more like the SF series of the Potter era. You can learn more at classicseacraft.com.



The registration numbers are on the taller section to which I referred.
 

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Tony,
My experience with the 26 Steigercraft is that they pound a bit in a chop and are squirrely in a following sea. Another boat worth looking at is an Osprey. There is lots of comfortable living space in the cabin on the same level as the cockpit. With dual controls it's easy to fish from the cockpit as well. They seem to ride better than the steigers in a chop and following sea.
:cheers:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Yeah Roger, Ospreys are nice performing boats and when I first considered going larger, they were at the top of the short list. While they are still on my list, they are not as high as they once were for a couple of reasons. Mostly I'm a form follows function kind of guy. With cars and boats I'm a little pickier. They gotta look good as well as perform. Osprey's have the performance I'm after but they look like a tug boat....no sex appeal. Also, they are pretty high priced. Their 22 footer is about 80 grand and their 26 is about 130 grand. For 105 grand that 26 foot General Marine is more boat. I saw a 22 Osprey this summer for sale, 3 years old, for 52 grand. If I was ready to buy, I would have considered it. I'm not opposed to going used, but that's a "what's around when I'm ready to buy" kinda situation.

With Steiger you really need to be model/boat specific because their hulls are all different. The 25 for example has a deadrise of only 14? and it pounds. Whereas their 21 and 26 footers are 21 and 22? transoms and reports are the 26 is not nearly as bad. The 21 is so new, there's probably not more than 10 built yet.

I'm somewhat enamored with Steigers new Deep-V 21. For a 21 foot boat it has a 8.5 foot beam. That's huge for a boat that long. Most boats run ~3:1 (21'/7'). I'm thinking that with a 21? deadrise and an 8.5 foot beam that would be a pretty stable boat on a drift (beam) and still be a good runner in chop (21? deadrise). The proof is in the sea-trial though.

I'm still about 2 years from retirement/purchasing. So I'm really just trying to do my homework so that when we're ready, I'll have my priorities straight and know a good boat and a good deal when presented.

I want you to understand where I'm coming from so you don't get frustrated when you see my next thread about such and such boat. Plus I just enjoy learning and talking about boats. Do you post on the Hull Truth?
 

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TonyDB said:
I want you to understand where I'm coming from so you don't get frustrated when you see my next thread about such and such boat. Plus I just enjoy learning and talking about boats. Do you post on the Hull Truth?
No worries about frustration. Like you, I enjoy discussing boats and learning. I make it a point to never "marry" my opinions and constantly update them as I learn new information.

I do post on THT, but stay away from "which boat/motor is best" threads. There's lots of good info there, but there are also too many that have strong opinions with no experience. It's hard to figure out who's who.

Regarding your boat, it seems that the toughest thing for you to reconcile is cruising 100 miles in comfort vs day to day use and fishing.

Have you considered getting a 20 - 21' power boat and a sailboat that you could moor somewhere? :cheers:
 

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Well If I wanted to cruise 100 miles off shore I would want something a lot bigger than 20 or 21 ft, Years ago I was fishing with Jack Renolds on a charter boat (29 ft. Dyer)and we hit a road wave . Two fifteen to twenty footers out of nowhere. Jack said hole on and I sh-t. I couldn't believe them. When your a hundred miles off the coast, thats a long way in if it makes up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
CC, up to 100 miles of shore-line cruising and no more than 30 miles off-shore. The 21 steiger only has 125 gal. gas tank. I'd be flagging down a tanker if I tried to take that boat 100 miles off-shore.

Roger, we are really just getting our feet wet (sort of speaking) with sailing. A few years back I built a 14 foot carvel planked sprit-rigged sail boat....did the masts and sail as well. Every year I change something on that rig trying to enhance performance. Last year for example, I changed out the hinged center-board. I originally made it out of marine plywood and cast a lead-slug insert for weight. It seemed that as we built speed that center-board wouldn't hold position and tracking would become a problem. Since I'm a polymer chemist (see avitar), I got the idea to make it out of aluminum oxide filled epoxy. So I built a mold using the original as a template, laid stainless steel rod to enhance structural integrity, and cast up a new center-board. Problem solved. Next summer I plan to increase the keels depth and either move the mast further forward or add a jib to get better up-wind performance, improve/reduce tacking angles.

We keep it on the beach during the summer and tool around inside the islands. My wife really likes it. I, on the other hand, get board, unless there's a pretty good blow. Now that we've got a few years experience sailing a small boat, I think we're ready to try sailing something bigger. I'll have to see how I like sailing in a larger boat. So, yes, sailing is something I'm considering, but, way to early to decide.

Right now, I have a slip two miles up river. I'm trying to get an ocean mooring out front (where our house is) for convience. This would also allow for us to be a two-boat family keeping a small skiff at the slip for in-shore fishing and keep the larger boat moored infront. If the weather turns bad, I could run the larger boat up river and either anchor or use one of the public moorings that few people no about and as such, are almost never in use. A good friend is a Maine boat builder and he's been telling me that there's no way I can do what I want with just one boat. He predicts that I'll have two. I'm still open-minded, aka in denial.

I thought I saw a post from you on THT...same handle right?
 
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