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First Mate
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just got an email from a boardmember here and he said he was given a heads-up from Tom at the River Basin that herring use may be on the table to be banned next year in NY. Has anyone else heard anything about this? It would really piss me off if they passed this!
 

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I have not heard anything for 2010, but every year for the past 5yrs or so that topic comes up.

Same with the J-hook ban, that one has come up about the past 10yrs or so.

I don't see it happening for 2010, but it may be the last year :einstein:


BB
 

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Well this doesn't seem to be a rumor. I just recived a email from dec that they will be having a meeting in jan of feb discussing the change in fisheries for herring and shad. Its looks like it won't take affect till 2012. Its not def but it looks like it can happen. Heres the email I recieved It say to pass it on to anyone that may be interested. Hopefully it works.
 

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fish your head off!!!
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Good luck with that, guys. Same thing happened to us down here in eastern NC in 2006 thru 2010. Moratorium on herring... Its now 2009, we still do what we do, and the numbers haven't seemed to increase at all, but you can bet your arse the striper fishing got more challenging!!! Stupid, stooooooooooopidddddddddd!!!
 

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First Mate
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I think the ONLY thing we have going for us is that the herring are only here for about six weeks. Yes, they are here to spawn, but recreational fishermen won't hurt the breeding stock. I think that if DEC was to limit posession to six per person of LIVE herring, it would help. No one needs to have five or six dozen herring in the boat for two or three people. I was guilty of this myself this year. On one particularly good morning, me and my girlfriend's grandfather scapped up 100 herring. We used about two dozen all day between five of us and the rest I gave to my dad to use for trapping this fall. For shits and giggles, when I was bagging them up. I cut random fish open to see if they were male or female. Of the two dozen fish I checked, EVERY ONE was a male! Weird. I think we all need to attend at least one of the DEC meetings and voice our concerns. It would also help if we as anglers offered compromising solutions as well.
 

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RoughThumb
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I just got my gill net renewal forms and they are not even issuing herring shad net licenses this year i have had the herring shad tag for years but it be gone now. as for herring usage this spring i got the same email about public meetings but in my estimation it is a done deal already. man they really know how to screw up a good time don't they like the herring we take for bait during the run up the hudson is really what is reducing herring numbers. GIVE ME A BREAK! Lets all try to turn out to be heard but i do have a baaaad feeling about this this year.
 

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First Mate
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yeah, I got my scap net renewal two weeks ago. I also mailed in my survey that is required if you want another scap net permit. The girl ( Amanda?) called the house TWICE asking for further info such as how many days I scapped and for how long each session. I made sure I told her that for the past few years I have seen TONS of herring later in the season just swimming by the shore and splashing on the rocks in the shallows. Not mating, just getting ready I guess. This has been witnessed as far north as the Coeymans area- just ask Hung4Wheeler. They need info bad because they HAVE to have a plan in place by 2012 per AMSFC regs.
 

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I think the ONLY thing we have going for us is that the herring are only here for about six weeks. Yes, they are here to spawn, but recreational fishermen won't hurt the breeding stock. I think that if DEC was to limit posession to six per person of LIVE herring, it would help. No one needs to have five or six dozen herring in the boat for two or three people. I was guilty of this myself this year. On one particularly good morning, me and my girlfriend's grandfather scapped up 100 herring. We used about two dozen all day between five of us and the rest I gave to my dad to use for trapping this fall. For shits and giggles, when I was bagging them up. I cut random fish open to see if they were male or female. Of the two dozen fish I checked, EVERY ONE was a male! Weird. I think we all need to attend at least one of the DEC meetings and voice our concerns. It would also help if we as anglers offered compromising solutions as well.
This is one of the dumbest things I have seen posted in a while. The rec fisherman won't hurt the breeding stock as you go on and say you scapped 100 used 2 dozen and cut others up for shits and giggles????? If I were you I wouldn't tell this story at the meeting. Do some research on how herring spawn!!!!!!!!!!!! And you talk about being pissed off if it passes??? I'm more pissed reading your rant. Maybe next year you won't be as careless. Guess what?? YOU HURT THE BREEDING STOCK by wasting 80 herring in just 1 trip. Go figure:anon: I am assuming these are river herring?
 

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First Mate
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
This is one of the dumbest things I have seen posted in a while. The rec fisherman won't hurt the breeding stock as you go on and say you scapped 100 used 2 dozen and cut others up for shits and giggles????? If I were you I wouldn't tell this story at the meeting. Do some research on how herring spawn!!!!!!!!!!!! And you talk about being pissed off if it passes??? I'm more pissed reading your rant. Maybe next year you won't be as careless. Guess what?? YOU HURT THE BREEDING STOCK by wasting 80 herring in just 1 trip. Go figure:anon: I am assuming these are river herring?
Did you really READ my reply??? I didn't cut them up for shits and giggles, I had saved them for my dad who traps in the fall to use as bait. I wanted to know their sexes, THAT"S why I cut them up!
 

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First Mate
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
This is one of the dumbest things I have seen posted in a while. The rec fisherman won't hurt the breeding stock as you go on and say you scapped 100 used 2 dozen and cut others up for shits and giggles????? If I were you I wouldn't tell this story at the meeting. Do some research on how herring spawn!!!!!!!!!!!! And you talk about being pissed off if it passes??? I'm more pissed reading your rant. Maybe next year you won't be as careless. Guess what?? YOU HURT THE BREEDING STOCK by wasting 80 herring in just 1 trip. Go figure:anon: I am assuming these are river herring?
You know, after writing my initial response this morning I've been stewing about this all day. YOU'RE the one who went on a rant, not me! You said it was one of the dumbest things you've seen posted in a while, but obviously you didn't really READ it to begin with! I SAID I was guilty of taking more than I really needed ( although PERFECTLY LEGAL to take that amount AND some were suppossed to be consumed by my girlfriend's grandfather but he changed his mind too late to throw any back.) New York DEC has YEARS of data that needs to be looked through. YEARS! And yet they want to hang this on us. I also said that we need to offer compromising solutions- putting a bag over your head doesn't help anything. I don't want NY to wind up like Mass. and Connecticut that's for sure. BTW, I have done ALOT of research on both the herring and the striper and feel I know their needs pretty well in the river system. Yes, we are talking river herring. In closing just let me say this- I don't need people to agree with me or like what I do. I simply can't stand when someone replies to a forum topic with nothing but hate and attitude with no real substance or room for intelligent conversation, especially when they don't bother to read the topic. Hey, no harm-no foul. Good Luck this coming season.
 

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I also mailed in my survey that is required if you want another scap net permit. The girl ( Amanda?) called the house TWICE asking for further info such as how many days I scapped and for how long each session. I made sure I told her that for the past few years I have seen TONS of herring later in the season just swimming by the shore and splashing on the rocks in the shallows. Not mating, just getting ready I guess.
Yeah i sent mine in a month ago or so (i have the dip net permit) ... me and my buddy also did a volunteer Herring monitoring program that lasted 8 weeks during Apr/May. Basically just a 15min spot check in local creeks and report what you see for activity and approx numbers of fish.

Here is what concered me, A number of the volunteers were not fishermen and didn't even know what to look for. Just looking at the creek your not going to see much and if they reported back NOT seeing ANY fish, that is not going to help our case !! There are a lot more Herring around than they think.

I would put on my waders and go up the mouth of the creek, even attract them with the stoolie even though i was not even netting any at the time. That way i could give accurate numbers. Just standing there you don't see many. I understand they are trying to help but i would be surprised it they saw many at all ?!?!?!


My 2 cents !


Guess i'll have to try a few new tactics this year and find a new way to catch them for future years.

BB
 

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First Mate
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Yeah i sent mine in a month ago or so (i have the dip net permit) ... me and my buddy also did a volunteer Herring monitoring program that lasted 8 weeks during Apr/May. Basically just a 15min spot check in local creeks and report what you see for activity and approx numbers of fish.

Here is what concered me, A number of the volunteers were not fishermen and didn't even know what to look for. Just looking at the creek your not going to see much and if they reported back NOT seeing ANY fish, that is not going to help our case !! There are a lot more Herring around than they think.

I would put on my waders and go up the mouth of the creek, even attract them with the stoolie even though i was not even netting any at the time. That way i could give accurate numbers. Just standing there you don't see many. I understand they are trying to help but i would be surprised it they saw many at all ?!?!?!


My 2 cents !


Guess i'll have to try a few new tactics this year and find a new way to catch them for future years.

BB
You know, this is just one more thing about NY that really pisses me off. How the hell are the people at DEC suppossed to make sound conservation decisions about our fish and game if THEY don't get out there and do some actual field work. Other states like Minnesota and Michigan for example are very proactive in managing their natural resources. Did you happen to see this on the DEC website?: http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_pdf/nyherrstatus.pdf

It paints pretty scary picture.
 

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The Dec is way off base but it is the only fishery they can regulate. The real problem with our decreasing herring numbers can be attributed to Offshore Trawlers killing River herring Bycatch when they are targeting Sea herring. These nets are as long a a football field wide and also as long and are roughly 8 stories high. The River herring co mingle with the sea herring and are thus killed as Bycatch. A single tow of the net can harvest as much as 100,000 pounds of herring. The Sea Herring boundaries has been expanded while some states wrangle with legislation that will take years to pass while more bycatch is wasted and not regulated or counted. The Dec will admit to this and their limited knowledge of the actual Bycatch numbers. Let me assure you they are massive losses and this why the herring numbers as a whole in the river have decreased. Their intended regulation of our river herring is just a futile attempt by them to cover up the real truth to what's going on and their inability to do anything about it. This is the sad truth and they will destroy the hudson river Striped Bass fishery. I'm already selling my boat as I can see the future and what it holds with their ridiculous denial of the real truth behind the herring stock decline and their ludicous proposals to fix it.
 

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You know, after writing my initial response this morning I've been stewing about this all day. YOU'RE the one who went on a rant, not me! You said it was one of the dumbest things you've seen posted in a while, but obviously you didn't really READ it to begin with! I SAID I was guilty of taking more than I really needed ( although PERFECTLY LEGAL to take that amount AND some were suppossed to be consumed by my girlfriend's grandfather but he changed his mind too late to throw any back.) New York DEC has YEARS of data that needs to be looked through. YEARS! And yet they want to hang this on us. I also said that we need to offer compromising solutions- putting a bag over your head doesn't help anything. I don't want NY to wind up like Mass. and Connecticut that's for sure. BTW, I have done ALOT of research on both the herring and the striper and feel I know their needs pretty well in the river system. Yes, we are talking river herring. In closing just let me say this- I don't need people to agree with me or like what I do. I simply can't stand when someone replies to a forum topic with nothing but hate and attitude with no real substance or room for intelligent conversation, especially when they don't bother to read the topic. Hey, no harm-no foul. Good Luck this coming season.
Hey sorry for pissing in your Cheerios. But I did read the whole post. Yes perfectly legal to keep them all but this website is dedicated to Striped Bass. It's legal to keep 2 bass per day in Ma over 28 inches. A good 70% of my outings result in multiple fish over the 28 inch mark. I let 95% of my fish go even though it's legal to keep them. I do keep some to eat but I don't keep rest because that's what the book says I can do. It's the same as pogies. There is no limit. But I won't snag, or net 100, use a few and bait pots with the rest. The main reason for my rant was the comment about the rec fisherman not having anything to do with the river herring populations and then talking about taking way more than needed to actually fish. I could have put a couple thousand pounds of pogies in my freezer (not like its big enough) this year and it would have been perfectly legal. But I didn't (see what I mean?) If the Bass regs are changed to keep 20 per day would you keep 20? Get what I'm talking about? And it wasn't hate towards you at all maybe some attitude but I can't help that. Maybe a ban will be good in a way. Yes it has sucked for us but the pop's are slowly coming back. And I feel if they didn't do it we would be screwed at this point. At least 7 local runs STILL haven't had #'s that we had years ago before the ban. I will never preach to anyone to let them ALL go to fight another day. But I will say take what you need and that's IT. Please don't be upset by my posts. I'm not trying to piss you off or attack you in any way. I argue and bitch with my good friends all of the time. Boys will be boys:gob_icon_cheers:
 

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First Mate
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hey sorry for pissing in your Cheerios. But I did read the whole post. Yes perfectly legal to keep them all but this website is dedicated to Striped Bass. It's legal to keep 2 bass per day in Ma over 28 inches. A good 70% of my outings result in multiple fish over the 28 inch mark. I let 95% of my fish go even though it's legal to keep them. I do keep some to eat but I don't keep rest because that's what the book says I can do. It's the same as pogies. There is no limit. But I won't snag, or net 100, use a few and bait pots with the rest. The main reason for my rant was the comment about the rec fisherman not having anything to do with the river herring populations and then talking about taking way more than needed to actually fish. I could have put a couple thousand pounds of pogies in my freezer (not like its big enough) this year and it would have been perfectly legal. But I didn't (see what I mean?) If the Bass regs are changed to keep 20 per day would you keep 20? Get what I'm talking about? And it wasn't hate towards you at all maybe some attitude but I can't help that. Maybe a ban will be good in a way. Yes it has sucked for us but the pop's are slowly coming back. And I feel if they didn't do it we would be screwed at this point. At least 7 local runs STILL haven't had #'s that we had years ago before the ban. I will never preach to anyone to let them ALL go to fight another day. But I will say take what you need and that's IT. Please don't be upset by my posts. I'm not trying to piss you off or attack you in any way. I argue and bitch with my good friends all of the time. Boys will be boys:gob_icon_cheers:
The worst part for me is that last year I read a report online ( I'll see if I can find it and post the link ) that mentions the MILLIONS of pounds of river herring that are caught as by-catch by ocean trawlers that AREN'T counted as by-catch but NOTHING is done to them! The ASMFC's answer is to limit or eliminate the use of herring by RECREATIONAL anglers??? Seems like a pretty stupid way to solve the problem to me! And now here in NY, if you want to fish for stripers/herring in the spring, you have to buy a special license in addition to your regular fishing license. I can guarantee you that if NY bans the use of herring, practically NO ONE is going to pay for that special permit to fish with lures. It's a sad state of afffairs all around. Spring striper fishing is something I look forward to every year and really thought it was something I could do and pass down to my seven year old son for the rest of our lives.... now I'm not so sure.
 

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That's the only thing the Dec is interested in, money and how they
can get their share. The Trawler bycatch is the answer to the herring number decline. Nothing else. The Feds are supposed to put monitors
on the trawlers but admit it is rarely if ever done. Yet our glorious
Dec wants to restrict the use of herring in the river. Why? Because
they can regulate it to some degree. I brought this up at last years meeting in Staatsburgh and they promised to look into it as they
know it is a big problem. If anyone goes to this years meeting ask
them what they learned and what the impact is? They won't have
an answer for you because they have their own agenda for the river.
Gunner I'm sorry to say this but as you mentioned, I doubt your
son will ever be able to enjoy what we once did. The state will
destroy this great fishery within 2 years from what I have heard.
It's why I'm selling my boat as I don't want to get stuck with
something I use for a month and soon won't use at all. It's the sad
truth and I knew when they got their hands into the pie it was all over with.
 

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VETERAN STRIPER QUEEN
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i think that if they do anythging they should not ban it but put a limit on the number you could catch, there are millions that go up the river. what they should ban is the commercial fishing done in the rivers. they don't allow commercial fishing up the rivers the salmon spawn in do they. and only allow a couple of days instead of months at the mouth of the rivers for commercial fishing.
 

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First Mate
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Here is the link to a very interesting document posted by the ASMFC. It shows among other things the commercial harvest of river herring. Bewtween two states in between the years of 1980-2006, 90 MILLION POUNDS of river herring were harvested COMMERCIALLY!! 90 MILLION POUNDS! That acconts for 80% of the TOTAL commercial harvest amongst the 12 ASMFC states. In 2006 Maine had OVER one million pounds commercial harvest while New York only had 9,748 pounds. Obviously, the problem lies within the states that have a more direct ocean contact, not here in NY where the herring are only here for 6-8 weeks a year. Anyways, here's the link as promised. It's a VERY interesting read: http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_pdf/herringpid.pdf
 

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First Mate
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
i think that if they do anythging they should not ban it but put a limit on the number you could catch, there are millions that go up the river. what they should ban is the commercial fishing done in the rivers. they don't allow commercial fishing up the rivers the salmon spawn in do they. and only allow a couple of days instead of months at the mouth of the rivers for commercial fishing.
I agree with you 100%. I think a posession limit of six LIVE herring per angler not including any currently being used as bait at the time is a very FAIR compromise as well.
 
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