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Reels and Reel Maintenance Reel Maintenance and schematics - Discussion on spinning and conventional fishing reels - teardowns and hard to find parts


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  #1  
Old 09-30-2009, 11:02 PM
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Kaoma Kaoma is offline
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Default Spinning reels, quality vs. price.

Please do not start a thread war, just fact based info.

Today I stopped by BassPro Shop for some line and hooks and, in the reel section, in a special thick glass display I saw a couple of Shimano Stella and one Daiwa Saltiga Z reels, both brands at $700.00+. I have asked the sales guy if he consider getting some Van Stalls and ZeeBaas reels and he did not know what I was talking about. I told him where to look for info and he was very surprised with the looks and price.
My question is, why most people buy the top line Shimano and Daiwa, when for the same price or less they can get the VS (or the Zee for a bit more), all metal, machine cut as opposed to die-cast parts and plastics. Am I missing something? except for looks and bright colors?
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  #2  
Old 09-30-2009, 11:24 PM
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Default Re: Spinning reels, quality vs. price.

not sure what that all means but, vs and zb are not as well known to the public who are in search of the best reel out there as shimano/diawa are well advertised. the "in the know" surfcaster will know to buy a vs or zb but, know not to buy a stella... as we speak, there is a recall on all japanese market made ones. and we would much rather have the reel that is surf friendly.



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  #3  
Old 10-01-2009, 10:41 AM
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Default Re: Spinning reels, quality vs. price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoma View Post
Please do not start a thread war, just fact based info.

Today I stopped by BassPro Shop for some line and hooks and, in the reel section, in a special thick glass display I saw a couple of Shimano Stella and one Daiwa Saltiga Z reels, both brands at $700.00+. I have asked the sales guy if he consider getting some Van Stalls and ZeeBaas reels and he did not know what I was talking about. I told him where to look for info and he was very surprised with the looks and price.
My question is, why most people buy the top line Shimano and Daiwa, when for the same price or less they can get the VS (or the Zee for a bit more), all metal, machine cut as opposed to die-cast parts and plastics. Am I missing something? except for looks and bright colors?
Different Reels for Different Applications..Stellas nice if is not getting dunked as for me I own many reels. I use my VS the Most because of where I mostly fish it gets beat and dunked a million times and keeps on ticking.
Also the Basspro Shop here in Foxboro Carries the VS.
As for the orignal Question you can get a quality reel for a descent price its all on what and how you will using it to know what you will shoping for.
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  #4  
Old 10-01-2009, 10:48 AM
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Default Re: Spinning reels, quality vs. price.

From the Department of Redundancy Department

Neither the Stella nor the Daiwa are sealed water tight.
The Zeebaas and the Van Staal were designed specifically for the surfcaster and the submergence in saltwater.
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Old 10-06-2009, 06:37 AM
ReelinRod ReelinRod is offline
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Default Re: Spinning reels, quality vs. price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoma View Post
My question is, why most people buy the top line Shimano and Daiwa, when for the same price or less they can get the VS (or the Zee for a bit more), all metal, machine cut as opposed to die-cast parts and plastics. Am I missing something? except for looks and bright colors?
Yes

Those reels are only occasionally used for surfcasting and usually then in applications not to far from their designed purpose (jigging deep and swift water, i.e., the Big Ditch). They have never been considered part of Shimano's or Daiwa's surfcasting reel line-up, "top line" or otherwise.

VS and ZB are designed for a specific purpose and they perform in those conditions . . . and under those conditions there are really no other choices. In my opinion that does not make them the premier surfcasting reel across the board. As much as a non-waterproof Shimano is not for swimming, neither is a Van-Staal the optimum choice when considerations other than being sealed are primary.

Back to Shimano and Daiwa for a moment . . .

Neither company offer their better surfcasting tackle for sale here in the USA, most American fishermen are oblivious to the designed exclusively for surfcasting tackle choices that the rest of the world enjoy. Amazingly, those guys catch fish from the surf that make stripers look like guppies with those non-sealed reels with their plastic parts.

See, when it comes down to it, stripers are quite far down the worldwide list in challenge to skill and tackle. That some enjoy making the endeavor more challenging (to the point of ridiculousness IMNSHO) doesn't give the fish mystical properties for which reels with solid billet aluminum machined frames are demanded.

And yes, the list of top line reels that you will never see in BassPro is much longer than the list of ones they carry.

Here's one you won't see in any American tackle retailer's thick glass case.

I paid a bit over half of what a VS costs 5 years ago for my Basia and this thing has been through hell with the only failure being the line roller bearing. This is what I would consider to be a "top end" surf reel for how I fish (not necessarily the best).



Quote:
Originally Posted by striperjim View Post
Neither the Stella nor the Daiwa are sealed water tight.
The Zeebaas and the Van Staal were designed specifically for the surfcaster and the submergence in saltwater.
But that feature is a necessity for a only a small segment of surfcasters.

In reality, most open beach surfcasters would be better served with a durable, no nonsense long spool reel that would enhance whatever casting abilities they possess.

Whenever I see a pot-bellied guy standing high and dry on the beach casting a plug poorly with a Van-Staal I chuckle . . . too many good dollars thrown away just to have the "premier" surfcasting reel LOL.
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:50 PM
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Default Re: Spinning reels, quality vs. price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoma View Post
Please do not start a thread war, just fact based info.

Today I stopped by BassPro Shop for some line and hooks and, in the reel section, in a special thick glass display I saw a couple of Shimano Stella and one Daiwa Saltiga Z reels, both brands at $700.00+. I have asked the sales guy if he consider getting some Van Stalls and ZeeBaas reels and he did not know what I was talking about. I told him where to look for info and he was very surprised with the looks and price.
My question is, why most people buy the top line Shimano and Daiwa, when for the same price or less they can get the VS (or the Zee for a bit more), all metal, machine cut as opposed to die-cast parts and plastics. Am I missing something? except for looks and bright colors?
Have you used top of the line shimano? You can't bash those reels because you just picked up a VS. I own a VS250, a Stella5000FA and I just picked up a Sustain 8000FD you can swim both shimano's if your smart enough to do a service afterwards and both mentioned shimano's hold up to jigging and big fish just fine. Remember Shimano has a much longer history than VS in the high end reel market and hardcore Tuna fishermen have landed more big tuna on Shimano than you understand. Take a look at this link....I am ordering the 20000HG that is found on this site (600!!!! Why not)....there are reels in the JDM market that you don't know about that compete with the VS and yes some are even cheaper.

So yes your missing something, its doing research before you make opinions about "looks and bright colors"

Check the links below...


http://www.japantackle.com/Shimano/S...009SW_HGPG.htm

http://www.japantackle.com/Shimano/S...StellaSW08.htm

http://www.japantackle.com/Daiwa_ree...iga_z_spin.htm

Or even better a sealed drag and body....

http://cgi.ebay.com/09-Daiwa-Saltiga...:B:SILF:US:105


http://www.japantackle.com/Daiwa_ree...a_Catalina.htm

Not a flame but you asked for facts but stated an opinion to which you had no background other than recently purchasing a VS. Different strokes for different folks personally I don't care what reel someone's using but there is a growing segment of fishermen that think their fishing ability is judged by the gear they carry...as stated in a previous post there is nothing better than watching a googan with a VS, anyone that's fished enough has seen it. I even saw one guy wearing a VS crotch rod holder at the canal LMAO
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  #7  
Old 10-13-2009, 05:29 PM
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Default Re: Spinning reels, quality vs. price.

It's sort of like when I go shopping for handbags. I see something at the bargain basement and just go "humpfh!!!". When I see a gucci bag . . . . oooohhhhh, it's like my panties just explode!

Seriously though, I love my penn 704z. One of these days I'll bring it to a pro to have it done over. Sigh . . . why did they stop making them?! And relatively inexpensive!

A reel that I'd love to try out (for the money = 30 bucks) is the daiwa DF giant. Put it on a beater rod for a guest maybe.

I've only heard good things about the basia, but difficult to find. The 12# line rating seems like it would be limited to flat sandy beaches, not a rock / jetty reel?
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  #8  
Old 10-14-2009, 12:06 AM
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Default Re: Spinning reels, quality vs. price.

My panties exploded when I found those 600 dollar Stella's!


I gotta add that I love the disclaimer about not starting a flame just fact based info but the whole first post is incorrect opinion. Remember you can own all the best gear and still be a complete effin googan....
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  #9  
Old 10-14-2009, 12:21 PM
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Default Re: Spinning reels, quality vs. price.

Wow....I never got the answer I was looking for, but plenty of personal oppinions (which I don't care for). I was looking for technical info, as what makes somebody spend $700 for a Daiwa or a Shimano as opposed to $700 for a VS or a bit more for a ZB. Is the body metal, ball bearings, drag system etc better in a Japanese reel as oposed in the VS or ZB?
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  #10  
Old 10-14-2009, 01:23 PM
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Default Re: Spinning reels, quality vs. price.

Kaoma, which BPS did you go to? In AZ? The VS and ZB are mainly saltwater surf casting reels. Designed to handle the rigors of the surf.

As I speak, my penn 704z is drying out from a morning of surfcasting. It isn't totally salt water proof. the VS and ZB can have sand thrown all over it, and cleaned off with a dunking in salt water. To my knowledge these are the only two brands that are completely water tight.

Now, those two jap reels you speak of, probably great, deal with sea spray just fine. You try surf casting with that, grinding up sand in the spool, getting water into the gear case. I ask you:

1) What's the most abrasive thing in the world after diamonds
a) - sand

2) which material more readily deals with the abrasive aspect of sand
a) plastic or white metal or graphite
OR
b) steel (i.e. ZB and VS)

Zim is right. Bot the VS and ZB are not well known. Neither is zziplex fishing rod blanks or AFAW. But if you have to have the best, well, I guess you can goto bass pro and blow $$ like an ass . . . or you can shop around and seek out people in the know.

My original point is the best gear in the world (according to whoever) can blow up in you're face. My Ron Arra exploded after ten hours. I'm getting a replacement, but it just goes to show you that time is a better judge of character and equipment.

Take a look at this joke:

http://www.tackledirect.com/penn-tor...ing-reels.html

Penn Torque.

I'll wait till people with money to blow start raving about it before I get one. Cutting edge is sometimes also the 'bloody edge'.
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  #11  
Old 10-14-2009, 01:35 PM
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Default Re: Spinning reels, quality vs. price.

I think that to properly deal with the topic it needs to be split into two parts.
Fishing wet, where the reel is subjected to constantly being dunked.
And fishing dry, where the reel stays for the most part out of the water.

If I'm fishing wet, wading out to bars, fishing Montauk........... I've only used a select few reels of which only two are currently in production ZB, and VS - the jury is still out of the new Penn Torque, I haven't touched one yet.

When I'm high and dry casting from the beach with little chance of a full dunking I stick with the modern long cast spool design. I use a Surf Saltiga but that's only because I got a great deal on it and couldn't say no. If I was to go online and purchase a new reel it would be one from either the Japanese or European markets. Unfortunately none of the best reels are available here in the US.
Also the most of the highest end Shimano and Daiwa's are really not targeted for the surf fisherman, the market they want is the high end offshore butterfly jigging and popping market, the guys who are after the really powerful critters like Tuna and GT's. (Internationally a bigger market with lots of money to spend - our little surf world is too small a market for most of the big tackle companies to be very interested in)

Maybe, just maybe, one of these tackle companies will use their heads and make a modern long casting reel with the watertightness of a VS.

So, to answer the question:
"My question is, why most people buy the top line Shimano and Daiwa, when for the same price or less they can get the VS (or the Zee for a bit more), all metal, machine cut as opposed to die-cast parts and plastics."
I would say because the high end Shimano's and Daiwa's are designed for different purposes then the VS and ZB's. The Shimano's and Daiwas's cast long and have amazing, powerful, buttery drags (enough to stop a pissed off Giant Trevally diving for the reef). The ZB's and VS's are tough as nails and can withstand punishment that would quickly kill the Shimano's and Daiwas - but lack the long cast and ultra high end drag.
If the buyers had a better idea of what they required their reel to do then they would be better able to properly choose.
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:37 PM
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Default Re: Spinning reels, quality vs. price.

Further more, who uses a bail pickup?
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Old 10-17-2009, 05:24 AM
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Default Re: Spinning reels, quality vs. price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoma View Post
Wow....I never got the answer I was looking for, but plenty of personal oppinions (which I don't care for).
Wow....Sounds like somebody has a reading comprehension problem.

As I and others have stated (sorry if you interpret it as "opinion") Stellas and Saltigas are NOT surf reels and you bunching them together as alternatives to Van Stall only demonstrates profound ignorance.

You are asking a stupid question. Why do some people buy $120,000 H1 Hummers and some people buy $120,000 Mercedes-Benz CL's?

The two product types are intended for two different applications.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoma View Post
Is the body metal, ball bearings, drag system etc better in a Japanese reel as oposed in the VS or ZB?
Yes

Unless one is swimming to rocks or fishing an awash jetty, buying a Van Staal is as much a stupid status thing as buying an H1 Hummer as a grocery getter.

A much better question is; why do people who don't swim with their reels feel the need to spend $700 - $1100 for VS and ZB when there are high end, surf engineered reels out there that cost half as much and deliver much better casting and fish fighting performance?

I can answer that in one sentence:

Because to them it is more important to look like you know what you are doing than actually know what you are doing . . .
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Old 10-17-2009, 05:56 AM
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Default Re: Spinning reels, quality vs. price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpohlson View Post
I've only heard good things about the basia, but difficult to find. The 12# line rating seems like it would be limited to flat sandy beaches, not a rock / jetty reel?
It is a fantastic reel that has exceeded my expectations for the 5 years I have owned it.

It is Japanese Domestic Market product so it will not be seen in any shop here. The one I have is discontinued now but shops in Japan still have stock. There is a European model as well and one that is even further lightened called the Basiair that weighs in at 15 ounces. At about 500 it would cost us over $800. (Maybe it will make it on Koama's shopping list now LOL)



I wouldn't recommend the Basia's for plugging as the reel is very sensitive to line tension issues. Mine rides on a 13'-2" All Star 1507 and is used with 5 ounces and bait or metals 95% of the time. The #5 spool holds over 400 yards of 20lb braid with a mono backer, the only mono that has ever been on it was regulation .26mm or .28mm diameter for casting tournaments.

If someone were to ask me for my highest recommendation for a surfcasting reel it would be any of the Shimano Power Aero family. There are JDM and EEM (Exclusive European Market) drag models and with the #5 or better, #8 spool it will hold more than enough line and with a 44lb drag nothing swimming on the striper surf will fully test it.

I have two JDM Power Aeros and they are the strongest, smoothest reels I own.

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Old 10-17-2009, 11:02 PM
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Default Re: Spinning reels, quality vs. price.

Me liky...
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