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  #1  
Old 01-17-2011, 12:35 PM
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Default Problem and possible solution

I read a thread a few day's ago and I can't find it. Anyhow it was about limiting striper caught to 1, slot limit, or other choice. What I gathered is that some are in fear the fish is being overfished. Well I see a solution for Sport and Commercial fisherman, I just don't know if some states do it already or not. I would like to see tags issued per person for x amount of fish, just like big game hunting, and iff you wanna catch them all at 1 time so be it. Same with the commercial side, I watched a trawl boat drag all day, they can keep 50 a day, here, he had 150 on the boat, and had to throw them back and yes most were dead, and it happens day after day, had that boad just had a quota of say 250 fish for the season there would not be dead loss daily like this, and he would make more money. I fish both sport and commercially so I see both sides. This would be a great way to keep tabs on how many fish are harvested each year and with little to no dead loss.

Any thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 01-17-2011, 02:55 PM
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Default Re: Problem and possible solution

We definitely have to do something. I am of the opinion we need to cut back on both sides. I strictly fish from shore and I keep one fish per year (yes per year). There is no need to keep 2 a day, every day.

Charter boats are a huge problem. Going out 2-3 times a day with 6 or more anglers and keeping 2 per angler plus 1st mate and captain. Change this to one per angler and don't include the captain and 1st mate. All recs should be one per day, max 3 per week...whichever is less....that's plenty for any one.

I'd like to see a slot size so we can let the breeders live on.

Trawling for anything should be banned. Besides all the waste they turn the ocean floor into a barren desert.

Commercials need to cut back and should not be allowed to "double dip". Meaning taking out a charter and keeping the meat to then sell later

If we all cut back a little now then the stock will replenish. Otherwise we are headed for another moratorium which will benefit no one

Poachers need to be punished more severely to keep people from even thinking about it....it's too easy
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Old 01-18-2011, 08:49 AM
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Default Re: Problem and possible solution

unfortunately DoubleRunner thats not a solution to our problem. They need to be able to tell how much fish is being taken -vs- what the breed / growth rate. Dropping the limit still doesnt answer the problem, and 2 per angler may be what is needed to keep the eco system in check. If there are 2 many Rock, they eat up all the bait/crabs and whatever else, so they have to keep the population in check. I personally have never seen a charter boat take more than 2 trips a day, and usually the ones that do 2 trips don't all limit out. You can't be against the commercial fishing, they just need to set rules, so we don't have dead loss. I am serious I saw a boat drag had 200 fish and threw 150 back 50% OF that is dead/drowned fish. And it's not the boat's fault that's how the fishery tells them to operate 50 a day. It should be you buy a slot for 250 fish and you can catch em in 1 tow, then there done limited out season closed.

And your statement about making the penalty's more stringent upon poacher's, ponder on this, how many people b-4 they do something illegal, actually look up and see what the consequences were prior to doing the crime? Yeah they should be tighter but it's not going to stop them.
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Old 01-18-2011, 12:03 PM
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Default Re: Problem and possible solution

I dis-agree. Back when we had the last moratorium the stock came back. And no one could take any fish during that time. So now you're saying if we cut back that somehow that won't work because there would be too many? HUH? That fuzzy math don't work for me.

Tags to get 250 fish in one shot? Sorry but I dis-agree again. One thing is you'll find a pod of the biggest fish you can get and then hammer the large ones so that you get 250 forty pounders as opposed to 20 pounders. Wanna set a limit make it on the weight and not the quantity. Plus if you take 250 all in one shot then you typically wipe out whole pods which will never re-produce again whereas if you take 5 out of a pod of 250 then there are still many breeders left to move on

While every charter may not limit out, many times they do, otherwise they would not have any customers. Multiply that by 2-3 times per day and thousands of trips per day up and down the coast....well you get my drift

And regarding poachers. Yeah since we can't catch 'em all we should just give up and let them have their way. Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law. I say take their licenses....both boat and auto...and take their boats and severe fines. The word will get out

Do you know if you own a boat and get caught drinking while driving your boat that you lose your boat license and your drivers license? No different then for poachers

In addition there should be monitors on every comercial vessel, especially trawlers, that get to see the catch and the by-catch. All the by-catch should count towards the commercial quotas
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Old 01-18-2011, 12:54 PM
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Default Re: Problem and possible solution

NO,No, don't put words in my mouth or misconscrew what I said. I said cutting back doesn't neccesarily answer the problem. The Fishery could very well handle the pressure, but we have no way of knowing cause of deadloss from comm fishing and other non reporting factors.

I also just said criminals don't read the laws b-4 they break them, which would mean enforcement to catch them not just letting them go. Another way you put words in my mouth.

I am not trying to start an arguement with you, I only wanted to get some thought's and you can't be one way and hammer down on the commercial fishing. People make a living whether it be Charter, Seine, or Trawl. Do you not eat shrimp,Lobster,Crabs and other commercially caught fish? You are looking at this biasly as a rec angler

I agree with the Trawlboats being the biggest issue, When I comm. fish for stripers it's beach seine or drop net, with a 10 limit. and it very rarely pay's out.

And just so you know, I usually keep and eat every fish I catch, I love them, my freezer gets filled in season and I eat it year round, same with Deer, I shoot every doe I can legally take, and so does everyone else I know. there are more whitetails now then there ever was.

The fisher has to be in check fish and food for the fish, to many fish not enough food = unhealthy fish, that's no good either. And right now they have no idea the amount of fish being taken or killed off.
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Old 01-18-2011, 02:51 PM
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Default Re: Problem and possible solution

Quote:
Originally Posted by Night Crawler
I read a thread a few day's ago and I can't find it. Anyhow it was about limiting striper caught to 1, slot limit, or other choice. What I gathered is that some are in fear the fish is being overfished. Well I see a solution for Sport and Commercial fisherman, I just don't know if some states do it already or not. I would like to see tags issued per person for x amount of fish, just like big game hunting, and if you wanna catch them all at 1 time so be it.
The original thread is in the striper room. NC.
New Jersey has a bonus tag program but you must apply for it - anglers can harvest two fish at 28 inches or greater per day. With a bonus permit, anglers can keep a third striper at 28 inches or greater. One per day, no carryovers.
In New York on a head boat you can have 2 a day over 28' but if your just an ordinary fisherman its one over 28" and one over 40"
https://www.stripers247.com/phpBB2/sh...ght=slot+limit
Quote:
I would like to see tags issued per person for x amount of fish, just like big game hunting
Thats actually not a bad idea - limit of 20 fish per season. Instead of 2 or three a day.
In my opinion the party boats - head boats / present a dilemma. They harvest sometimes as many as 80 fish per trip with a fare of 40 anglers and believe me every fish that comes over the rails gets filletted. Some companies have 5 or 6 boats with 2 trips per day per season. Do the math.
People paying 70 bucks per trip want their two fish to take home. With the smaller charters its not nearly as much of a slaughter, generally its 3 or 4 people per trip and many encourage catch and release but there are literally thousands of licenses bought for the privaledge.
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Old 01-18-2011, 04:31 PM
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Default Re: Problem and possible solution

Night Crawler I did not want to start a fight either. I think it's the way I interpretted your statements just as they way you interpretted mine was off in some ways.

#1. I hate to take away a guys living but's let's also realize that many people catching commercially do it part time...it's not their main livelihood.

#2. I believe we all need to cut back. Rec's, comm's and charters. If we all take a little less then it helps to sustain the stock. I also believe in a slot size limit. No more than 1 fish per day for a rec with a max of 3 per week. No one eats more than 3 stripers per week

#3. If you are a charter boat then only the paying customers get to keep 1 fish each. No need for the captain and 1st mate to keep any

#4. If you fish commercially and also take out charters then no keeping any fish from a charter to sell commercially

I do not like that you feel the need to keep a freezer full of striper year round. That is overboard in my opinion. To each his own and far be it from me to judge but I don't like it.

Right now the tags are a joke. It allows anglers to keep 3 fish instead of 2. Plus who says you would tag every fish you keep. If we are talking about tags as the only fish you can keep and you can somehow enforce this then it may be an option but not if it is in addition to your regular catch.

Anyways, getting off my soapbox I think the most reasonable thing to do is for all sectors to take less. If everyone is not willing to do that then I am in favor of the gamefish bill. I'd rather see the stock abundant than going downhill. And it needs to be available for surfcasters as well as boaters

Yes education is needed. Should be part of the licensing system. But many know exactly what they are doing and know the penalties IF they get caught are nowhere near the reward they get for poaching. Penalties definitely need to be stricter and repeat offenders need to be taken off the water permanently plus some other hefty fines/penalties
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:01 PM
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Default Re: Problem and possible solution

just my thought on tagging is like big game harvest reporting, say we are given 10 fish for the season, with 3 per day limit, when you catch a fish it must be tagged and called in to reporting agency prior to, loading boat, or returning home. If not reported and vessel is boarded, you have illegal fish aboard. Commercial guy's would have to call and tag each haul to shore also. This would limit or lessen the catch, cause right now I can keep 2 per day the whole season, well if I fish 60 day's this season that's alot of fish right.
If you really pick apart what I am saying it does both things needed. 1- lessen the take per angler/charter/comm fisher. and 2- allows the precise tracking of what/where/and how many are being taken.

Hey I came up with this idea, I realize this fishery will have a problem if no action taken, I may e-mail marine fisheries in my area and see if I start a fire or not. I want my kids to be able to enjoy this as I do.


when I say my freezer is full, I may catch 10 fish for the season, I cathc an release, 30-35''fish get eaten, and I pic and throuw back bigger ones to out do my trophy, and only keep a breeder if it's a citation igger than b-4..
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: Problem and possible solution

No problems. We both want the same things with different ideas on how to get there. I need to learn more about the tagging type system. My initial opinion is it still comes down to the honor system...much like it is today. People will push the limits until they get caught. Not everyone. But some

I'd also like to see rec charter boats have a different classification so that all the other pleasure boat fishermen and surfcasters don't get lumped in with their numbers
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:21 PM
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Default Re: Problem and possible solution

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Originally Posted by Doublerunner View Post
No problems. We both want the same things with different ideas on how to get there. I need to learn more about the tagging type system. My initial opinion is it still comes down to the honor system...much like it is today. People will push the limits until they get caught. Not everyone. But some

I'd also like to see rec charter boats have a different classification so that all the other pleasure boat fishermen and surfcasters don't get lumped in with their numbers

The honor system (unfortunately) does not work in today's times.

charter boat's carry regular rec fisherman just like me and you, but no captn nor mate should be in. anything comm, caught for sale is the differant grouping.

Charter boats arent the problem, if you would read Striper Jims article on the Trawl boat slaying off the OBX this weekend( which you naild on the head earlier) that's what's gonna kill the fishery.
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Old 02-22-2011, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: Problem and possible solution

One fish at 36" or better period. We do not have to re invent the wheel here (we obviously are not any smarter than we were before the moratorium and we definitely aren't smarter than we were during it). It worked before it will work again.
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Old 02-22-2011, 05:01 PM
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Default Re: Problem and possible solution

Quote:
Originally Posted by Night Crawler View Post
The honor system (unfortunately) does not work in today's times. Amen to that


Charter boats arent the problem, if you would read Striper Jims article on the Trawl boat slaying off the OBX this weekend( which you naild on the head earlier) that's what's gonna kill the fishery.
The Trawlers are a major issue but we are all a problem in this fishery recs comm's head boats etc. until we all work together there will be zero progress and the fish and our fishing will suffer.
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:42 PM
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Default Re: Problem and possible solution

Its too bad we couldnt ratchet up the production and marketing of the hybrid aquaculture industry. Once the wild striped bass has overall gamefish status, It would probably behoove the Dnr and wildlife patrol agencies to help fund the retraining and retooling of the commercials on a trial basis with funds taken from heavy poacher fines, saltwater wallup brough monies and seized equipment. This would allow the law abiding tax paying comms to stay in the aquaculture business and still provide striped bass for the table for the consumers who are demanding them without crippling the livelyhood of the comm fisherman any more than it has already.
We dont live in a perfect world but we can adapt to change once forced and I'm sure there are roadblocks but aquaculture offshore farming is getting easier and less expensive. They should be doing that with menhaden for 10 years already. Its the future for sure but its not cost effective yet.
Watch how fast it gets done if the management of the fisheries had the balls to ban the massive harvesting of these fish.

Pipe dreams.
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Old 03-06-2011, 07:39 AM
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Default Re: Problem and possible solution

Sorry, but there is no solution.......

As long as there's "MONEY TO BE MADE"..... poachers, pirates, and commercial trawlers will prevail, until the striper stock is all but depleted...

And I wouldn't count on the Legislature to be of any help in any state pertinent to Striped Bass.... The almighty "dollar" again will prevail, and the sport fishing industry just doesn't have the lobbying clout to counter this.....

It's very unfortunate, but in plain english.... "NOBODY CARES".

We all live for the "today" and nobody gives a rat's arss about tomorrow.

It's all about the almighty dollar.................

Bluesman
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Old 03-06-2011, 09:12 AM
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Default Re: Problem and possible solution

Particularly when people are too stupid to understand the law of diminishing returns. Brutal

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluesman5748 View Post
Sorry, but there is no solution.......

As long as there's "MONEY TO BE MADE"..... poachers, pirates, and commercial trawlers will prevail, until the striper stock is all but depleted...

And I wouldn't count on the Legislature to be of any help in any state pertinent to Striped Bass.... The almighty "dollar" again will prevail, and the sport fishing industry just doesn't have the lobbying clout to counter this.....

It's very unfortunate, but in plain english.... "NOBODY CARES".

We all live for the "today" and nobody gives a rat's arss about tomorrow.

It's all about the almighty dollar.................

Bluesman
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