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  #1  
Old 12-16-2005, 11:57 PM
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merrillizer merrillizer is offline
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Default Wow, but are we really surprised?

The walls have ears.

Eavesdroppin'



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  #2  
Old 12-17-2005, 12:25 AM
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Sometimes the appearance of something is just as effective as the real thing. Back in the day when we all thought the CIA had real spooks, spys were more careful. Now they have taken to selling whatever whenever.
I say even if we dont evesdrop let them think we do. ;)
BTW Bush senior was former director of the CIA when that agency still had some teeth.
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  #3  
Old 12-17-2005, 01:11 AM
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As an American, whos ancestors and forefathers fought and died for these freedoms, I have a problem with the "fighting for freedom abroad" slogan, while taking away freedoms at home.

I would rather fight (and die if I have to) in my own street against radical Islam, than have some wealthy neo-con voted into office take away these freedoms.

Just when you think things are looking up, things get a little worse.



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  #4  
Old 12-17-2005, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
I have a problem with the "fighting for freedom abroad" slogan, while taking away freedoms at home.
Point taken. I totally agree.
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  #5  
Old 12-17-2005, 01:20 PM
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Bring that Islam ovah here, I'll introduce 'em to tha Marsh Circle Warriors



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  #6  
Old 12-17-2005, 03:51 PM
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Well, atleast Dubya admitted to it. He came clean today I think. Thats a first.

Did I forget to mention we have lots of guns? And a Browning in the basement? Bring on that radical Islam!



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  #7  
Old 12-17-2005, 08:16 PM
jbrotz24 jbrotz24 is offline
 
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Well, I personally don't have a problem taking them on but I would much rather destroy their country vice ours in the wake of fighting the radical islamists. If keeping these guys from attacking our country by tapping these aholes or anyone possible then so do it. Some times one must give up a little of their rights to be able to have all rights in the future for their children and grandchildren.
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Old 12-17-2005, 10:18 PM
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the problem i have is that our navy and coast guard are over in the gulf guarding the oil lines leading to the platforms and boarding massive amounts of ships coming and going in and out while protecting the vital oil flow which is the iraqi's main revenue to support the new (regime) but we have tankers and ships in and out of our ports not getting half the scrutiny, it is inevitable that some form of chemical/biological wmd is going to slip through and then the chaos and civil disorder and uprising/lawlessness will rear it's ugly head! bird flu my arse! can you spell botchelism? how about diptheria in the water shed? oh may i go on.



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  #9  
Old 12-22-2005, 10:51 AM
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Guys, don't you think it's possible that the primary reason they're over here (US, England, Spain.....) doing, or trying to do their dirty deeds is because, in their minds, we are over their doing our dirty deeds? .....that these exchanges of "dirty deeds" will continue to escalate until someone calls time-out, stops the escalation.

There's no clear right or wrong stand here, only perceptions. I think sometimes we get caught up in our own self-righteous opinions and subsequent actions and forget that the real world revolves around perceptions of what is right or wrong.

Here's an example of what I mean. Was it right that we took Sadam down? Probably. In the eyes of the world, did we do it the way we should have? Probably not, because we did things without the support of NATO, and especially because no weapons of Mass Destruction have been found. So I ask the question....Have our actions subsequent to 911/Afghanistan negatively changed world perception regarding the US. Absolutely.

Perception is reality and right or wrong only plays a supporting part in the total equation. Hence the statement, there's two sides to every story.

Guys, I just want world peace and I don't think that the path there is by anihilating your perceived enemy. The world is a small place these days. Can't we all just stop the aggression and live and let live?
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Old 12-22-2005, 04:02 PM
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Tony makes a very good point. Perception is reality whether it be real or imagined. If they hate us, they hate us. I learned this lesson up close and personal being an irish Catholic from Belfast Northern Ireland. Decades of hate and resentment towards the British government for occupation.
Not to make this political by any means but the answer is sociological. the children have to be taught tolerance not hate. They are the future, it is critical to what these children are exposed too.
In N. Ireland for example the children hear from their parents decades of resentment and hatred. The older generation percieves it as 830 years of tyranny and oppression and lived through abject poverty and occupation.
This ideology is beginning to change through education. The blight may die through attrition as the older population nears death. Its like the cure for aids. If everyone who had the disease died with the disease it would be gone forever.
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  #11  
Old 12-22-2005, 05:04 PM
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Do I sense a little rag head racial tone here?

"Two things you never want to watch being made. Laws and sausage."
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  #12  
Old 12-22-2005, 06:20 PM
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The "Rag Heads" were never really in our consciousness until the Ayatollah took the hostages in 1980. Since that time 'Persia' was no longer considered an exotic far away land.
The rich arab countries have to accept some of the responsibility but thier hatred of the Jewish state is at the core of the problem.
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  #13  
Old 12-22-2005, 09:17 PM
jbrotz24 jbrotz24 is offline
 
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Your very right Jim about the hatred towards the Jewish settlement. That, I believe is a portion of where the hatred comes in for the U.S. from the muslim world. They do not like how we surrport the jewish people. The muslim hatred towards America really began back in the 50's when we (U.S. and Britain) tried to overthrow the the Iranian government. Ever since then they hatred has been breed into the youth of the muslim world. I do agree to an extent that the we hold some of the responsibility for the hatred towards us. We can't change the past now though and we must go forward. We must protect ourselves now though no matter what the action must be. If it means invading a country or tapping the phones of suspected terrorists in the U.S. to protect our civil liberties than so be it. I wish it was that easy Tony to just go forward but unfortunately we can't. I agree with you guys all that everything is perception. Just like the war in Iraq, everyone has a perception from the news about what is going on and the media is the last place that I trust for fair and good coverage. I think it may be because of all the soldiers I have talked to coming back from over there that I believe different than the majority of the public but it is going a lot better than most see on the television.
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  #14  
Old 12-23-2005, 12:29 AM
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religion has had a part in every major war you can name. and don;t kid yourself, the righteous will prevail is the religion of choice's mind. i'm right your wrong nuff said, let's do dis like brutis!



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  #15  
Old 12-23-2005, 04:40 AM
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Some Muslims and all of radical Islam see our tilted and biased foreign policies in favor of Israel as a "problem". Radical Islam also believes that because of the atrocities of Hitler, that the "Jewish State" should be placed somewhere in Europe or North America, because the killing in WW2 took place in Europe.

Islam does not hate America's freedom. They do not hate us because we are free. They could really care less. However the media and your favorite politicians tell you this, in order for you to back them and their wars. If you read the interviews and text from Osama bin Laden himself, you'll come to find that the defining moment in his terrorist career was when we decided to "hang-out" on Muslim holy land...that being Saudi Arabia. That was the first thing to set him off, not Democracy or American freedom. Secondly, the Bush families money investing and profiteering schemes with Saudi royalty. These people could really care less how you live, it's only when we decide to invade and try to install our beliefs and convictions in their homeland do they become even more rabid and radical.

Radical Islam is a problem, but so are our lopsided foreign policies. Israel has 100 times the amount of "weapons of mass destruction" (and yes, tons of nuclear capability) and funding from the US than ALL Muslim countries COMBINED. Yeah, Radical Islam has car bombs and hijackers. Israel has also broken 10 times the amount of UN sanctions and regulations than any Muslim country, for 5 times as long, yet nobody says a peep. Why? Fear of being labeled. Cuz if your not on "their team", or sympathetic, your immediately brandished and slandered (ie: done away with, cast aside, crucified; see: Jesus Christ).

Too much one-sidedness, and not enough truth, recognition, and reality. That's what has bred this enemy of ours called Radical Islam.

Arm everybody equally in the Middle East, give everybody the same amount of interest free loans, then let them all have a nice big pow-wow. Last man standing is victorious. Game over.

If your not going to do that, GIVE NOBODY NOTHING AND STAY AT HOME.



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