Did I Get Screwed? - Stripers247.com Forums
 
Striped Bass Fishing Site Map | Contact Us | Fishing Log Software | Fishing Online | Advertise
to UPLOAD: please register or login

Go Back   Stripers247.com Forums > MAIN FORUM DISCUSSION > Boaters Forum
Forgot Password? Register Now!!

Boaters Forum This forum is for boaters both fresh and saltwater. Trolling / Tips / Tactics / Maintenance


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 05-15-2010, 10:45 PM
fishstick fishstick is offline
Dead Fish Swimmin
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Greencastle, PA
Posts: 27
Angry Did I Get Screwed?

I recently took my 79" Mckee Craft to be painted. They said they knew how to paint fiberglass boats. They used regular automobile paint and now its coming off. Can you use regular car paint on fiberglass, or did they rip me off?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 05-16-2010, 01:57 AM
drilltrash's Avatar
drilltrash drilltrash is offline
drilltrash
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Colusa, California
Posts: 76
Default Re: Did I Get Screwed?

i dont know a hell of a lot, but im not sure if you can use auto paint. my biggest concern, well more of a question is, did they put a marine gelcoat/clear coat finish over the paint? i believe after the paint is put on your supposed to put a final fairly thick marine clear coat over the paint.... i would wait and see what others have to say or call some other boat shops and ask them, or do some research on the net about it... that sucks man, sorry to hear that.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-16-2010, 09:00 AM
crazyman1 crazyman1 is offline
Striper Hunter
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NE Corner of Dutchess
Posts: 54
Default Re: Did I Get Screwed?

drilltrash,

Sorry to hear that you got screwed on the paint job. First question I would ask them is, was the glass prepped properly???? Glass is glass, but the prep work needs to be done correctly, plus it needs to be cleaned before any primer or paint is applied. Then there has to be a clear coat put on top of the paint to help protect it. If the prep wasn't done correctly, you may as well have just thrown your money in the toilet and flushed. Ya know , it's just like I got screwed on the purchase of a boat and motor by a fellow member on this site. So hard learned advice to give ya my man, inquire and see about references? Wasted time and money is a hard lesson to learn.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 05-16-2010, 11:08 AM
rjcappy's Avatar
rjcappy rjcappy is offline
Striper Hunter
Pro Staff
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Queens,NYC
Posts: 572
Default Re: Did I Get Screwed?

Fiberglass requires special primer, paint, and gel coat. It's a lot of work to prep properly and the materials and labor cost an arm and a leg. Also the gel-coat is crucial where it not only protects the paint but it also allows the boat to slide nicely on the water giving you maximum speed and fuel efficiency.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-16-2010, 06:26 PM
jasonsnova jasonsnova is offline
First Mate
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 225
Default Re: Did I Get Screwed?

ya ....you got took. i own a auto body shop, and yes you can paint a boat it is all in the prep work if its peeling its because it wasnt properly prepped. auto paint is actually quite expensive (more then marine generally) ...but nothing is gonna hold up like gel coat...thats why the factorys use it... sorry for your misfortune
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-16-2010, 10:26 PM
fishstick fishstick is offline
Dead Fish Swimmin
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Greencastle, PA
Posts: 27
Default Re: Did I Get Screwed?

I asked them what I needed to do to prep it. To save some money. They said sand it with 220 grit, wash it down, then tape. I did everything they said. Now they are saying I didn't prep it right, and it's my fault.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-17-2010, 01:13 AM
rjcappy's Avatar
rjcappy rjcappy is offline
Striper Hunter
Pro Staff
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Queens,NYC
Posts: 572
Default Re: Did I Get Screwed?

Was gel-coat ever applied? If so then it was bad prep work or bad gel work, if not then the job never had a chance!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-17-2010, 11:18 AM
whiteka6 whiteka6 is offline
Striper Hunter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 41
Default Re: Did I Get Screwed?

Damn. Is there anyway to get your money back? If not, send the word out that they are no good to fellow boaters. Put them out of business.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-17-2010, 01:25 PM
Roccus's Avatar
Roccus Roccus is offline
King of Eels
Pro Staff
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Reading, Mass/Rings Island
Posts: 4,227
Default Re: Did I Get Screwed?

As others have stated, the problem relies in the prep work... the original gel coat is cured by using a wax release that stays on the gel coat for many years, if the wax is not removed both chemicaly and by sanding, the paint will not stick... most people that paint boats use alwgrip or Emmeron...
__________________
.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-17-2010, 03:17 PM
fishstick fishstick is offline
Dead Fish Swimmin
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Greencastle, PA
Posts: 27
Default Re: Did I Get Screwed?

As I said, they are blaming me becaused I prepped it. I did not wipe it down with anything because they didn't say to, and I didn't know. Can I get them for using the wrong paint or application?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-17-2010, 04:25 PM
jerseystriper's Avatar
jerseystriper jerseystriper is offline
First Mate
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 654
Default Re: Did I Get Screwed?

Did you get screwed-YES but don't take the wrong way-much of this is your fault for not doing homework before beginning.

This guy must also have been be an a hole. Any painter worth a grain of salt would do his own prep. At a minimum he should have atleast wiped it down as even a finger print can damage the paint. Some people will allow the hard prep to be done by owner but it should have atleast done some. Prep is the most important part and is about 75% of the work-This should never be performed by someone that is not a painter

Here is some good info for you. Oh and yes auto paint is ok to use but does not have a mold agent like gel coat but many gel coats are crap and this is why you see so many chaulky faded boats. Here is a bunch of info actually quite abit but worth the read:

Most boats still use gelcoat for the exterior finish. Gelcoat is basically a resin with very high pigmentation content that gives it it's color. But gelcoat is used for another reason, and that is as a mold release agent that helps prevent the fiberglass part from bonding to the mold at the time it is laid up. Unfortunately, most gel coats have relatively poor resistance to sunlight and other environmental factors, despite claims to the contrary. Thus, we see the apparently never ending problem of boat finishes fading and chalking after only a few years time.
There are very high quality gel coats available that can hold up over the years, but very few builders use them because they are quite expensive. Bertram, for example, has always used a top quality gelcoat that, even after decades of aging, could be successfully buffed out and polished. But if you wax your boat and only a few months later it turns dull again, you've got a low quality gelcoat that won't hold a luster.
For boats using average or poor quality gel coats that begin to oxidize and chalk early on, painting is the only practical solution. Unfortunately, painting is expensive, but when done properly results in a finish that can last for a decade or more. In fact, with only annual cleaning and waxing, urethane finishes have been know to last for 15 years or more, even under the harsh Florida sun. Before making a decision, here are some important factors that you should consider.
Selecting a Painter Whether you use a yard or a jobber, beware that the price should not be the only factor in choosing a painter. The lowest cost will usually translate to the lowest quality of work. Jobbers tend to come and go with frequency because painting boats is a rough and difficult business. The ones who do the best work are usually more than happy to give you references of prior customers. It will be more than worth your while to investigate and actually go look at examples of their work.
As a rule, yards generally do higher quality work because they have a reputation to maintain. But it will cost more because they have higher overhead, and because they're probably paying higher labor rates. On the other hand, jobbers tend to be rather transient and their work can be inconsistent and unreliable. Be sure that they have a good track record and that they're likely to be around for while longer should they fail to perform to your satisfaction. If you're going to use a jobber, you'd be wise to get them to post a performance bond.
Not only are sprayers of urethane paints required by law to have an enclosed spray booth for environmental considerations, but it is not possible to achieve a good result when spraying in the open atmosphere. Be wary of any painter that does not have a covered paint shed.
Dark Colors A current trend is to use dark colors, especially black, to change the appearance, such as painting the space between windows black, or wide feature stripes. Because dark colors absorb much more heat, painting large areas in dark colors can result in damage or distortion to the surfaces being painted. Remember that fiberglass boats are plastic and somewhat heat sensitive. Because these plastics are thermosetting, a dark surface heats up under the sun and then the plastic continues to cure. This often results in shrinkage that can seriously distort the surface, resulting in permanent damage. The most serious damage occurs with cored laminates, particularly foam. You may have noticed some boats have a checkerboard pattern within these painted surfaces. This is caused by a secondary cure resulting from painting a cored laminate black that leads to shrinkage and the core showing through.
Preparation The three most important factors in getting a good result are preparation, preparation, and preparation. Seventy-five percent of the cost of painting involves preparation. Any paint job is only as good as the preparation that precedes it, and the skill of the people doing the work. Improper preparation can only result in dissatisfaction and a failed paint job.
Old gel coats are often porous and may have absorbed years worth of waxes and oils, a condition that reduces the ability of new paint to adhere to the surface. Thorough dewaxing and sanding is needed to make sure that contaminates are removed. This is followed by special primer coats that improve adhesive properties. All surface irregularities must be smoothed out, old holes and scratches filled and carefully faired out. There's nothing like a fresh, glossy coat of new paint to show up surface defects. Unless this work is carefully accomplished, all existing surface defects will be magnified and you will not be happy with the result.
Before signing a work order, you should go over the entire boat with the painter. Review all of the areas that need repair or special work. Have the painter tell you what needs to be done to achieve the best possible job, then decide if you're willing to foot the bill. Don't leave it up to the painter to make your decisions for you. Make it a point to ask about potential problems.
Removing Hardware If you've ever seen a boat that was painted by masking around hardware and painting over aluminum widow frames and other aluminum or plastic parts, you know what a bad paint job looks like. To achieve the best result, every possible piece of hardware should be removed. Yes, this is time-consuming and costly, but a good quality result cannot be had without doing so.
When hardware and other fastened-on parts are masked, this usually results in the paint bridging between the part and the mounting surface. The paint will eventually crack at this point, and when it does, water will them begin to migrate under the paint, resulting in flaking and peeling. This is true for virtually any kind of part mounted on the boat. That's why its always best to remove the part if at all possible.

Aluminum window frames and sliding doors should not be painted over for several reasons. First, because most frames are anodized and paint will not adhere well. Second, because the frames have stainless steel screws in them, the dissimilar metals cause galvanic corrosion. This why we see so many painted window frames with blistering and peeling paint. If the frames are anodized, don't paint them. Instead, the frames should be removed before painting. If the frames are in poor condition, they should be removed, stripped, sanded and repainted separately.
Plastic Parts should also be removed before painting, even if you are going to paint the plastic parts. The reason is that painting over the stainless screws will only result in corrosion and flaking.
Painting over caulked joints results in an unsightly mess. Caulking is soft and the paint is hard; therefore the paint will crack and begin flaking away wherever it is laid over caulking. For this reason, all caulking must be stripped off prior to painting, and recaulked afterwards.
Teak Trim All teak trim such as hand railings and covering boards must be removed before painting. The reason is that wood holds moisture that will eventually migrate under the paint and result in peeling. The entire area under the wood should be completely prepped and painted.
Difficult Areas Small, confined or enclosed areas such as up under eyebrows or tight spaces on flying bridges or cockpits are often not amenable to spray painting. The result is often heavy orange peel or unsightly over spray. Many times this is completely unavoidable and not the painter's fault. There are several alternatives to this problem, the first being not to paint the area if it is not really necessary. Carefully consider how it will look if you don't paint it. Another is to inquire if the painter has a skilled brush painter that can use a brush. Although some brush marks will be visible, really good brush painters can do a better job than a sprayer in these tight quarters.
Non Skid Decks Decks that have a molded in non skid surface do not take well to painting. Not only can't the surface be sanded, but the high points of the texture will wear the paint away more rapidly and likely leave the surface looking more unsightly than it was before. Carefully consider whether high profile non skid surfaces should be painted. You may want to just paint around them. On the other hand, smooth decks with abrasive material added to the paint works very well. Less, rather than more texture is best. Very little abrasive material is needed to achieve skid resistance, and is much easier to keep clean.
When to Paint To achieve the best results, boats should be painted when the temperature is between 70 - 80oF and the humidity below 65%. In the north, the window of opportunity is rather short unless the painter has an indoor facility. To get the best price, consider doing the job toward the end of the season rather than at the beginning.

In the south, particularly Florida, avoid the rainy season, mid-May to early June and late August through October. Frequent rains and high humidity can not only ruin a paint job, but the frequent weather interruptions cause the job to take longer and cost more because of frequent delays. In Florida, the prime painting season is late November through April when there is little rain and low humidity. The peak painting season is January to May, so you'll likely get better prices in the summer and fall, although you risk getting lower quality. For bargains, look for a painter with an inside facility and schedule for late summer and fall.
Making a Work Order The objective of creating a good contract or work order is that both parties should know what they're agreeing to. Foremost is the nature of preparation to be done and a definition of the final result. We all know the difference between the $129.95 auto paint job and a good one that costs a thousand dollars. With yachts, its not quite that clear cut, but the end results are much the same. Remember that if you've driven a hard bargain for a price, but are not happy with the results, you won't have a leg to stand on if you haven't specified the quality of work to be done.
1. Take the time to specify the exact nature of all the preparation work to be done.
2. Specify the primers and finish coats to be used.
3. Specify the nature of the defects that you will or will not accept. These include fish eyes (caused by contamination), dust in finish, runs and sags, over spray and orange peel. Remember that the later are inevitable in all but the highest (and most expensive) quality of work.
4. Don't expect a warranty if you paint over aluminum hardware and trim.
5. Don't pay the full price up front. Pay half down in advance and half upon completion to your satisfaction.





Proper Care A good paint job should last for ten years or longer with proper care:
  • Don't use harsh detergents or abrasive cleansers for cleaning. Use only a very soft, natural bristle brush or mop. Never use plastic or stiff brushes that will scratch the paint. If you must use an abrasive such as on non skid, remember that chlorinated cleansers will damage the paint if allowed to remain in contact for more than a few minutes. Be sure to rise thoroughly, especially the point where the water runs down the hull side.
  • Keep the boat clean. Accumulated dirt and atmospheric fallout can result in acids forming on the surface of the paint and damaging it.
  • Wash down thoroughly to remove all salt after using, including the hull sides.
  • Wax the boat at least once per year, except for walking surfaces, or course.
  • Avoid ice damage; cover the boat during winter lay up.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-17-2010, 06:30 PM
fishstick fishstick is offline
Dead Fish Swimmin
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Greencastle, PA
Posts: 27
Default Re: Did I Get Screwed?

Thanks for the info. I guess I can try to reason with them and show them it was both of our faults. I just need some hard evidence to show them that they were at fault too.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-17-2010, 06:43 PM
BlueFin16's Avatar
BlueFin16 BlueFin16 is offline
Striper Hunter
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 87
Default Re: Did I Get Screwed?

"Any painter worth a grain of salt would do his own prep"



Considering that it is the most critical step of the process, why would a painter leave it in the hands of someone other than his/her own shop?

Thanks for the detailed information jerseystriper!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-17-2010, 09:23 PM
jasonsnova jasonsnova is offline
First Mate
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 225
Default Re: Did I Get Screwed?

any pics? take some pics of peeling areas , is the paint coming right off the areas you sanded?...ideally you should of started by washing with warm soapy water, then wash again with a solvent base wax and grease remover, then sanded, then it for optimum hold out epoxy primed then the painter could of either gone directly over the epoxy primer after flash( commonly called wet on wet) or if a fill pimer was needed then applie that , then sand again then topcoat , like roccus said emmron is a very common paint useed on boats because of its tough nature.

if the guy that painted it just painted directly over the fiberglass....its gonna peel regaurdless of what you did. painter/shop should of know better
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-18-2010, 11:11 AM
fishstick fishstick is offline
Dead Fish Swimmin
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Greencastle, PA
Posts: 27
Default Re: Did I Get Screwed?

I can take my fingernail and scratch the paint right off. This boat has been sitting outside, in the weather, for 25 yrs. Could it be since sitting outside so long that the glass had soaked something in and sanding released it?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
screwed

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Report: Mundee 6/27 merrillizer Massachusetts 34 06-29-2005 07:11 PM
The Weather has screwed everything up Riddler Kayaking Stripers 0 09-20-2004 10:49 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2004 - 2013 Stripers247.com LLC
Affiliated Sites:   Noreast.com   Allcoast.com    2coolfishing.com