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Spinning reels, quality vs. price.

36K views 68 replies 14 participants last post by  mike17670 
#1 ·
Please do not start a thread war, just fact based info.

Today I stopped by BassPro Shop for some line and hooks and, in the reel section, in a special thick glass display I saw a couple of Shimano Stella and one Daiwa Saltiga Z reels, both brands at $700.00+. I have asked the sales guy if he consider getting some Van Stalls and ZeeBaas reels and he did not know what I was talking about. I told him where to look for info and he was very surprised with the looks and price.
My question is, why most people buy the top line Shimano and Daiwa, when for the same price or less they can get the VS (or the Zee for a bit more), all metal, machine cut as opposed to die-cast parts and plastics. Am I missing something? except for looks and bright colors?
 
#33 ·
Very nice video its funny goes with the whole thread!
 
#34 ·
dpohlson,
I have read the link to the article you posted, all I can say is WOW...now I see why VS and ZB are called surf reels. I have a few questions...these guys wear scuba gear right? Do they find a sand bank to stand on it or just swim in deep water? Is this the thrill of the "hunt" or is the fish so good they have to have it no matter what? I my perspective, why not use a inner tube or surf board (cheap, light and portable)to float on as opposed to swimming and play with danger? Did any accidents happen and people lost their lives or limbs? I used to fish on the East Coast and still do in California in the summer, but never went deeper that waist water while fishing. Impressive.
 
#35 ·
I'm the wrong person to ask, but from what limited experience I having with fins is this:

You have way more mobility in the water with just a wet suit (not a dry suit) and fins than you could with a tube. Not only that, but a good 5-4-3 mil wet suit ought to float you nice, and keep you warm. Ocean temps may only ever get to 64F around here. That would be a high temp.

I thought about a surf board, but that would just get in the way. If you have on a nice wet suit (prefer 5 mil) and fins, and . . . eh hem, . .. you have a little extra insulation of your own, you can float like a cork. Some guys go from rock outcropping to rock outcropping. there are a ton of jagged stone islands that dot the striper coast, so it was only a matter of time for some stud to swim out with a rod and reel.

Not for me . . . not without some friends right by within ear shot. Not without my .357! It's made of stainless! Better off having balls made out of stainless steel.

You might say it's the navy seals of bass fishing now wouldn't you?:notworthy:
 
#36 ·
My respect to all you guys doing this type of fishing. I would try it once, but is not my style. I am a good swimmer, but I want to use bait, not be the bait. Don't seals attack people if they believe there is competition to their food? what about sharks and squid, also mermaids and topless women :a_goodjob:?
 
#37 ·
Skishing as its known is a new venture, well relatively. There are a few guys that started doing it a while ago. I haven't yet but will next year, personally I think in some ways its less dangerous in comparison to regular surfcasting. People die every year in the surf, if you've ever fished Montauk you will see the names carved into the rocks at the base of the lighthouse. In the surf zone everything you do is a challenge, changing lures, landing and releasing fish, ect. Mind you that for me and most others this is done in the middle of the night on some of the biggest rocks on the east coast. When you skish you have an opportunity to get out on the other side of that surf zone, into the bass zone so to speak. As long as your smart and always paying attention to your surroundings and the potential dangers it seems like the perfect way to catch a cow. Having had to swim with a ruck sack and or a drill instructor in my ear pushing my head underwater it seems right up my alley! I'm sick of getting hit and knocked of my perch by huge waves. I plan on starting simple, using the swimming advantage to reach distant rocks near rips, once I am comfortable with the swim and the currents in the area I'll go from there. Probably only do swims in the early evening at first and then all night....learn up here and then take the skills down to Montauk. There are risks but from what I've seen its the best way to take a cow if your serious about surfcasting then you'll do things to increase the chances in your favor.
 
#38 ·
I may not be alone on this, but from my point of view, the safety surpasses the fun factor. If my daily food would depend on this type of fishing, I might do it. Good luck in this, have fun and be safe. Remember, no fish is worth getting hurt.
P.S. the only time I went to Montauk was for whale waching. From Manhattan to there is a looooooong way.
 
#42 ·
I have not been skishing but have read about it and watched several videos and it was also on Hooked the other night. As Jon has said many times there is more danger from the shore. If you have ever fished the surf(the real surf-breakers and all) the is more danger in my opinion. Heve you ever been standing on a jetty and had a rouge wave come crashing over your head, it happens. I feel with skishing your biggest danger is sharks, either eating you or pulling you to England. Many folks have been killed or injured due to waves breaking on them. Remember you don't float well with waders on caught in a rip or undertow. With a wetsuit suit on there is no effort to stay afloat. Having snorkeled, snuba and scuba dived the salt water is very buoyant with a suit on-this is why you wear either a weight belt or vest to create neutral bouyancy. Yes a belt even when snorkeling as there is nothing worse then fighting to dive or trying to stay at the bottom while waiting for that fish to peak it's head out to shoot it with a spear or staying on the bottom picking shellfish.

As for the reels go, I don't have either of them. Given the choice I myself would not buy the VS but thats just me. I have heard about way to many nightmares about them, to me for a $700 reel that is unexceptable. As for peoples choice I feel that has been answered, some is for not not knowing and some for the type of fishing. For many more it is brand loyality, I can say that Shimano has an awesome warranty department, I have heard of several VS's sent of to be repaired only not to see the reel for many months and then have it shipped back worse then when it was sent in. As for maintenance I sure hope you bought the repair kit or send your VS in for its required maintenance. As for your no maintenance this is dirctly from Van Stall about the maintenance kit "The kit is best suited to those anglers who feel comfortable with minor repair work on their reels. If you do not feel comfortable disassembling your Van Staal reel, please have your reel serviced by a Van Staal-trained technician. Is important to follow the steps outlined in the included manual very carefully. The procedures are easily performed, but care must be taken in order to prevent any damage to your reel" Not mentioned is or you will void your warranty! As for your technical info how about casting 150 to 200 yards or 30/40 lbs plus drag pressure. Every reel has it's place, I would rather have an Accurate or Shimano then a ZB or VS when fighting a GT, giant Wahoo, Marlin, Tuna and many other fish. I have a Shimano reel and Ugly Stik rod that may have cost me $80 together, I have never more then added a few drops of oil(maintenance) to the reel and this setup has caught me way over a thousand lbs. of freshwater fish and many in the salt. Heck it has also spent a couple winters sitting on my deck iced and snowed in. Many things made in China are junk but I'm sorry to say(being a proud American) that many things made in Japan are much better then what is made here in the US-waders, fly tying tools, knives and many more things. If you buy many of those things directly from Japan they are also cheaper and maybe not available in the US. Some great reels though are made in the US, Accurate and ZB to name two. I also don't know of any white metal or plastic parts inside of an Accurate TwinSpin and atleast the drag is waterproof.
I would not mind a ZB but I choose to have other luxuries-like a house on the lake, boat, 2 jet skis, boat house and so on. I also do not feel that a person that "flips bugers" is any less of a person. I know several highly educated people that are doing that to get by and have had it all and now have almost nothing. I also know probably more than hundreds if not thousands of people that had it going for them and now they live on "fixed incomes", SS or welfare. All it take is one gunshot, slip of the scalpel, accident or what have you and anyone of us could be just like them-disabled. I also think of them as no less of a person, I actually donate much of my time to help them-fixing wheelchairs-scooters, building ramps, habitat for humanity, helping them drive a race car,(see pic below) etc. Trust me I can ill afford to do this(work for free) but that was just the way I was raised, to try and help those in need.
 

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#41 ·
Again not for show-off but for general info:
Today I got the ZeeBaas 22. It was custom made, a hybrid from the first gen and the second gen. The body (with 6 screws on the side plate) reel foot and reel crank is gen 1 and the rotor with spool is gen 2. I wanted it in this way since I didn't like the thumb screw on the right side to open the reel. Now since I have both reels, here is a comparison of them:

Van Staal VSB150B
-no tool marks, perfect construction. All parts are machined from stock aluminum bar. Is this made in China??
-black anodizing is deep black, shiny, same color on all parts. Looks hard to scratch.
-the reel cranks smooth but not free spinning, nice gear rumor.
-drag knob is smooth but not enough threads to adjust a lot. In two turns of the knob you can go from no drag to almost max drag.
-the bail is thick, solid and after I have adjusted the bail arms, there is no play at all.
-reel is light, medium size but feels solid, no loose or rattling parts.
-the looks are good, more like a 50's concept design.

ZeeBaas 22ZB
-under 8X magnification you can see tool markings on most parts. Units are machined from stock aluminum bar EXCEPT for the two towers that hold the rollers that are cast molded and are file finished...
-black anodizing is not as shiny as VS but still good, EXCEPT not all the parts are the same color, the reel crank arm is a bit lighter and a tint dull.
-reel is very smooth, a bit smoother than VS, I like tight reels.
-the drag is very good, the drag knob has a lot of threads, takes a lot of turns to change the drag.
-both reels feel the same in weight and size.
-the looks of the reel are modern, nice architecture.
-I got three caps and stickers!!!
-the box is WOW, the Z is aluminum!
If ALL the parts would be machine made and polished after that, the reel would reach perfection. Again I am judging by looks and not performance. In a long run, if I have nothing else to do, I might de-anodize the reel polish it and recoat it.

It is very hard to say which one is better just by looks and feel. I would have to use both of them for a while and see how they hold up to say this one is better that the other. What I can say, both feel solid and very well built. I will use the VS first for all fishing and treat it like a $100 reel, and will keep the ZB for a later project. Over all, I like the ZB a bit better, again just by the looks. If you have any questions or want more details, let me know but remember I am an obsessed perfectionist and what for you has no importance, for me is a big deal. Here are some pictures...
 

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#43 ·
90% of the time when you see someone with a vs reel they are a rookie fisherman who just started fishing , and have yet to even bring in a keeper.

a freind of keeps saying how he can't wait untill all these people sell them on ebay at half price when the season ends and they quit fishing.

it's just like people you see driving hummers ,or mothers with large suv's ,that have absolutly no use for them , but it makes them feel better inside
 
#45 ·
90% of the time when you see someone with a vs reel they are a rookie fisherman who just started fishing , and have yet to even bring in a keeper.

a freind of keeps saying how he can't wait untill all these people sell them on ebay at half price when the season ends and they quit fishing.

it's just like people you see driving hummers ,or mothers with large suv's ,that have absolutly no use for them , but it makes them feel better inside
True in some cases, you "ain't gonna" see mine on Ebay...but then, all of you that bash them will line up to buy the used ones. Once they are in YOUR price range, they stop being a POS rookie reel and become the one TO HAVE. I smell bank account hypocrisy big time here...
Let's see how many of you bashers are fisherMAN enough to admit that you would love them but can not afford the price.

Yes Jon (now I know, your wife is Kate, how are the kids?) I have the balls to put my toe in the water, just not my type of fishing...When you'll grow up you'll understand.
 
#44 ·
Jim I am glad you enjoy this thread. Its just an example of an educated person making uneducated choices based on the montra "It costs the most it must be the best" Although should our rich friend ever grow some balls he will have the finest surf reels on the planet to use, that is if he's man enough to put his big toe in the water.
 
#46 ·
I'm not going to blame anyone in particular, but this thread has officially reached the stoopid level, if it keeps up I'm going to lock it.

Let's keep it informational. What higher end reel is the right choice for this guys particular use is an interesting subject.


Here's what I think:

IMO opinion, the ZB and the VS are great reels for what they're designed for, heavy duty "wet" surf fishing. I think that for use in a more gentle environment, lakes for example, there are probably better options.

Since there's no need for a completely waterproof drag I would want a reel with the best, smoothest drag available, that's not the ZB or VS, it would be the Daiwa's with Shimano's coming in a close second. Also I would want something that can cast a long way, again the Japanese reels are miles ahead of the US manufacturers. Go to a distance casting tournament, every reel in the spinning catagory is Japanese market.

Disclaimer - I have a ZB 25, love it, had a VS years ago but sold it. Hated the cranking tightness (couldn't feel the action of the plug) and the annual send it in bit irritated me, prefer to do all my own reel work - I would buy again due to the new greases and self serviceability.
Cranking tightness is a personal preferance and my buddy who I sold it to is still fishing it 5 years later and loves it.

I also have a Saltiga Surf and there is no way the drags on the ZB or VS can compete with the smoothness of the Daiwa drag, like buttah I tell ya!

For all around power and great drag the Stella is probably unbeatable in a nondunking environment. Hell, it's probably the most popular reel for popping Giant Trevally from boats, can't get more brutal then that. The Daiwa Saltiga (not the Surf version) comes in a very close second for that use, but there have been some issues with the stem snapping above the foot.

Another great choice would be the Accurate Twinspin, but it's a heavy brute - good for bait, a workout for plugging - and it HATES sand, the tolerances are way too tight.

Not saying your choices were wrong or bad, the reels will do the job and do it well, they're just not what I would have chosen for that particular situation. Come east for just one trip and do a bit of fishing in M and you've just completely validated your reel choices.

Just my opinions. Your mileage may vary
 
#51 ·
Yeah I regret getting involved in the first place, time wasted shoulda spent fishing. Speaking of you ever going to get out there again???
 
#49 ·
I gave up on page two.

Listen Kaoma you got the money to spend on those two reels for lake fishing, outstanding. I wish I had it to spend on those reels to use for what they were intended. I bought a 4500b at the beginning of the year to fish and it has about lasted me this season. I have 10 other reels I can fish but that has served me well this year. It looks like hell, it has been bashed on rocks it has been dropped in the salt but it still cranks it still lands fish and it has enough drag to catch what I am after. Next year I will upgrade, that reel will look like hell after a season of using it also, it goes with the territory.

My rods have no luster, my reels look like hell but they all have a story to tell. What ever you fish with give it story. That is what matters!
 
#50 ·
I have been laughing since the beginning of this thread. I'm still laughing

Still laughing

Laughing some more

Jon006 is hilarious...no offense kaoma....

Catching catfish in a tube rofl...hahahahahahahahaha

still laughing

Cant stop...

OK....ahhh.....whooooo.........

As youguys know already I bought a vs200 and I got a shimano10000 for my bday. Both great reels.
I don't fish with fins on but I do stand waist deep in the surf and both reels do fine. I don't dunk them on purpose.
But both have been dunked and they are both fine. The shimano is a much better reel IMO
but I use the vs more.
Its just a tougher reel..
 
#53 ·
This is the last post, and since I have started it, I would like to ask the mods to lock it up, reading only. For the last time I will explain the reason WHY for some of you...
In Arizona, in the summer time, the temp is 115F. We can literally fry eggs on the sidewalk. Inside the car the temp is easily 160-175F. The only place I can fish is in the local rural lakes or the large reservoire lakes (yes, it has stripers). Not the first time, I put the reel/rod on the ground for 30-45 min and when I came back the reel's but (the yellow plastic at the end of the reel) was warped or the graphite rotor was cracked. It the reel was OK, the plastic reel seat's locking knut was cracked. This may also be to the fact that the reel/ rod gets very hot and I put them in the water to cool off. All those were Shimano, Penn, Quantum reels from $50 to $75. If the reel did not break at the lake, the heat in the car got it. I went to the stores and asked which reel is the best, but since we are a fresh water state, all the reels are limited to that, and are cheap. Did not trust the brands I have lost before and I was looking for something different, special. One friend advised me to look into salt water reels type since they "are" built better. This is how I ended up on this forum after searching the web for a long time. I started to read as much as I can and have learned about the VS and ZB reels. The more I was learning about them, the more I understood the fact that if they are good for the surf and the rocks, they will be good for me. Was not happy about the price but Shimano Stella and Daiwa Saltiga were in the same ball park. What I liked about the VS and ZB is the fact that they are machine made, not cast aluminum, all metal no plastic parts. I posted this thread for technical info, looks like a big mistake, wrong place to be. Remember, I was lookin for a reel to last in my environment...don't care about the surf, rock hopping, fish swimming. I don't judge, just not my type. So if you thought that I got the reels to show off on your side of the drink you were totally wrong. Did I over-buy? Yes. It was my choice since I want to have a reels for a long time, not a melted, cracked, warped one every summer. For me fishing is fun for a few hours, with an initial investment of $XXXXX and then free for a very long time (bread, corn, worms, crickets for bait).
Thank you to the ones that PMed me with info. Instead of help I got mostly crap from you, but that's the way people are now. Hope YOU don't get the hame "HELP" when starnded on the open ocean...what goes around, comes around!
Mods please lock the thread.
 
#54 ·
Nah dude, you say you were from NY, but I'm having my doubts. People who live on the water around here are just mean. People from Maine to New Jersey are just mean bastards.

Meanest guy I ever met was a bloom worm digger from Maine. Part indian. The guys that knew told me he would smash out peoples head lights and then when they came back from worm digging, he'd pumel them, and then threaten them some more. "Stay out of my territory." Surf guys are the same way, and you just happened to buy a surf reel.

so Koama, do me a favor, go to the bait shop, and stuff a mackerel underneath your seat!

Kidding, but if you DID do that it'd sorta be funny.
 
#55 ·
...smash headlights and threaten people?...most people here have guns on them.
No, some people are not mean, just make a huge effort to be a big SOB...common behavior of a man who as a kid was bent over the chair by Captain Jack....holding a VS reel!
I left 14 years ago, never looked back. The BAD problem is the NY-NJ-CT crowd is moving here now, in Scottsdale and bring all the bad habbits with them
 
#56 ·
With those temps you might wanna buy a pair of gloves to hold those reels or your gonna get a hell of a hand roasting, and btw don't take my posts so damn seriously, personally what reel's you choose and how you choose to use them is your own deal. Now hurry up with pictures of a big catfish, horn pout, cusk, american eel, sturgeon, or skate!!!!
 
#58 ·
Spinning reels quality vs price?
Back on topic.

VanStaal verses Zeebass

Keep in mind The Zeebaas is a skirted reel.
Its not just rinse fish and repeat.
You have to rinse and clean them as you would with all reels.
No doubt the reels are quality.
Whether you want to pay the money is up to you.
Who gives a crap what anyone else fishes with as long as they catch fish.
I try to hide mine so they dont grow legs.
Black and low profile for me.
 
#60 ·
I thought I would post this, this is a Water Proof Drag and Body Shimano. Yes they make it..Shimano Twinpower SW
Born of the same engineering pedigree as the world's number one threadline - Stella, the TwinPower carves its own niche amongst the range of ultra-high performance reels that Shimano has become renowned for.

The TwinPower will handle anything thrown at it and continue asking for more, displaying many of the same qualities that make the Stella so successful and Shimano a pioneer in heavy saltwater sportfishing and jigging applications.

Built on the "SR" philosophy (smooth, silent, strong and reliance), the TwinPower gets its unbelievable cranking power and strength from a heavy-duty cold-forged drive gear paired with a Brass pinion, near frictionless efficiency from intuitive design and reliability from decades of research and development unrivalled by any other manufacturer in the industry.

All these features are housed in a water-proof hybrid aluminium body which is then super-charged by the same Hyper-disk drag found in the Stella SW. Less wear on parts and effortless operation are thanks to no less than 11 Shimano bearings. Each reel also features AR-C spool design, Aero Wrap II, Rigid Support Drag, one-piece bail, Super Stopper II, Power Roller and Floating Shaft II.
http://www.shimanofish.com.au/publi...ts/reels/saltwater_spinning/twinpower_sw.html
 

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#61 ·
Used it and took it apart if you think any of Shimano's stuff is waterproof and good for extreme surf fishing you fall prey to another marketing ploy, however you can catch 400# plus tuna on the thing and the main shaft won't bend like the VS! Stella=Great boat reel especially for tuna....surfcasting is not where it should be used......I know I destroyed a couple of them doing it!
 
#63 ·
Check the links I posted, you can get twin powers pretty easy and not just from Aus...
 
#68 ·
I don't see any links, does not matter as I know know where and how I can get them. And as I said you can bring back from trip, import or Ebay. This is a copy of my quote" To get one you need to import or bring back from a trip over seas. Well or on Ebay, but many are the older models with a few newer ones."
They are not offically offered for sale from Shimano in the US. The Twin Power has also been redesigned very recently.
 
#64 · (Edited)
Kaoma said:
In Arizona, in the summer time, the temp is 115F. We can literally fry eggs on the sidewalk. Inside the car the temp is easily 160-175F. The only place I can fish is in the local rural lakes or the large reservoire lakes (yes, it has stripers). Not the first time, I put the reel/rod on the ground for 30-45 min and when I came back the reel's but (the yellow plastic at the end of the reel) was warped or the graphite rotor was cracked. It the reel was OK, the plastic reel seat's locking knut was cracked. This may also be to the fact that the reel/ rod gets very hot and I put them in the water to cool off. All those were Shimano, Penn, Quantum reels from $50 to $75. If the reel did not break at the lake, the heat in the car got it. I went to the stores and asked which reel is the best, but since we are a fresh water state, all the reels are limited to that, and are cheap. Did not trust the brands I have lost before and I was looking for something different, special. One friend advised me to look into salt water reels type since they "are" built better. This is how I ended up on this forum after searching the web for a long time. I started to read as much as I can and have learned about the VS and ZB reels. The more I was learning about them, the more I understood the fact that if they are good for the surf and the rocks, they will be good for me. Was not happy about the price but Shimano Stella and Daiwa Saltiga were in the same ball park. What I liked about the VS and ZB is the fact that they are machine made, not cast aluminum, all metal no plastic parts.
I have for sale or trade two reels in very good condition. The reels were never taken to the water. I you want to trade, I am looking for a conventional reel in the range/type of Penn 321GT (left hand crank) and please post /send clear detailed pictures. The reels are Penn Sargus 5000 and Quantum XR60F. The Penn reel has had the rotor ported to allow the water to escape faster and has been powder coated. Reels turn smooth, no problems. If interested, or have more questions, please let me know.
fraud hello.gif
you mentioned before that these reels melted are these the same ones your selling here? , and why would you want a penn gt?, won't that melt too theres plastic on it
 
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