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  #1  
Old 11-05-2007, 10:56 AM
Beach Beach is offline
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Default Tuesday Night at the Fight...Virginia Beach City Council

OK...the fight before the Virginia Beach City Council to re-open the Lynnhaven bar to Wade fishermen heats up tomorrow (6 NOV) night at City Hall, second floor at 6 pm If you cant attend please call 757-385-4303 or email the city council at [email protected] in the message title include the words YES TO LESNER BRIDGE ACCESS or YES TO WADE FISHING THE LYNNHAVEN BAR...sometimes they record statistics on a matter via email and the positive affirmation in the subject/title line brings attention to the issue.


To: Virginia Beach City Council
From: A Concerned Fisherman

Subj: Public Access to the Lynnhaven Bar

Council Members,

It has come to my attention that the Virginia Beach Police Department has begun issuing citations for Wade Fishing the Lynnhaven Bar adjacent to the Lesner Bridge. This is a historical fishing spot and public access to fishing should not be barred nor cited. I as a tax payer find this unacceptable and a further intrusion by local government to restrict my rights and access to public lands for legally licensed recreational purposes. I have heard that the reason is to protect me from harm. I find this argument completely without merit. As a long time resident I know of no incident involving a wade fishermen at this location ever.

Fishermen who fish this location have done so for years safely and we do not deserve to be singled out for selective enforcement. We pay close attention to conditions and use prudent caution while fishing there. We dress appropriately and wear protective gear for the conditions as well. Most of the time we are wading not much more than knee deep but this allows us access to one of the premier fishing spots in Va Beach.

I expect the City Council to do the right thing and restore the rights of tax paying citizens to fish this local area with out penalty. Should the City deem necessary then the signage should be amended to reflect "No Swimming" vs the "NO WADING OR SWIMMING" signs currently in place. This would allow fishermen access to these waters and satisfy the cities need to protect the young, the elderly and those who cannot swim from entering these waters.


Respectfully submitted
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  #2  
Old 11-05-2007, 11:42 AM
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Default Re: Tuesday Night at the Fight...Virginia Beach City Council

Virginia is a Commonwealth isn't it? How the hell can they deny the activity of fishing, in a Commonwealth?
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Old 11-05-2007, 11:58 AM
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Default Re: Tuesday Night at the Fight...Virginia Beach City Council

They are not restricting fishing...they ARE restricting access to the Lynnhaven Sand bar a bar located at Lynnhaven Inlet outside the Lesner Bridge...its a $250 fine to wade ankle deep into the water and they have/will written tickets for it. Citing public protection they closed this historic fishing spot. I've been fishing there 10 + years now and some of my friends for decades...
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  #4  
Old 11-06-2007, 12:25 AM
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Default Re: Tuesday Night at the Fight...Virginia Beach City Council

In the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, the rights to any body of water beow the high water mark can not be denied to the general public for purposes of fishing.

That was what I found surprising. Although I can think of a few beaches this is true of, none come to mind for salt.

Below are exerpts of, the Code of Virginia.

§ 28.2-1200. Ungranted beds of bays, rivers, creeks and shores of the sea to remain in common.
All the beds of the bays, rivers, creeks and the shores of the sea within the jurisdiction of the Commonwealth, not conveyed by special grant or compact according to law, shall remain the property of the Commonwealth and may be used as a common by all the people of the Commonwealth for the purpose of fishing, fowling, hunting, and taking and catching oysters and other shellfish. No grant shall be issued by the Librarian of Virginia to pass any estate or interest of the Commonwealth in any natural oyster bed, rock, or shoal, whether or not it ebbs bare.
(Code 1950, § 62-1; 1960, c. 533; 1968, c. 659, § 62.1-1; 1992, c. 836; 1995, c. 850; 1998, c. 427.)

§ 28.2-1202. Rights of owners to extend to mean low-water mark.
A. Subject to the provisions of § 28.2-1200, the limits or bounds of the tracts of land lying on the bays, rivers, creeks and shores within the jurisdiction of the Commonwealth, and the rights and privileges of the owners of such lands, shall extend to the mean low-water mark but no farther, except where a creek or river, or some part thereof, is comprised within the limits of a lawful survey.
B. For purposes of this section, "lawful survey" means the boundaries of any land, including submerged lands, held under a special grant or compact as required by § 28.2-1200, such boundaries having been determined by generally accepted surveying methods and evidenced by a plat or map thereof recorded in the circuit court clerk's office of the county or city in which the land lies.
(Code 1950, § 62-2; 1968, c. 659, § 62.1-2; 1972, c. 865; 1992, c. 836.)

§ 28.2-1204. Authority of Commission over submerged lands.
The Commission is authorized to:
1. Issue permits for all reasonable uses of state-owned bottomlands not authorized under subsection A of § 28.2-1203, including but not limited to, dredging, the taking and use of material, and the placement of wharves, bulkheads, and fill by owners of riparian land in the waters opposite their lands, provided such wharves, bulkheads, and fill do not extend beyond any lawfully established bulkhead lines;
2. Issue permits to recover underwater historic property pursuant to §§ 10.1-2214 and 28.2-1203; and
3. Establish bulkhead and private pier lines on or over the bays, rivers, creeks, streams, and shores of the ocean which are owned by or subject to the jurisdiction of the Commonwealth for this purpose, and to issue and publish maps and plats showing these lines; however, these lines shall not conflict with those established by the United States Army Corps of Engineers.
(Code 1950, § 62-2.1; 1960, c. 600; 1962, c. 637; 1966, c. 641; 1968, c. 659, § 62.1-3; 1970, c. 621; 1972, c. 866; 1973, cc. 23, 361; 1974, cc. 92, 385; 1975, c. 431; 1976, c. 579; 1980, c. 253; 1982, c. 102; 1988, c. 868; 1992, c. 836.)


§ 41.1-3. Grants of certain lands, etc., to be void; such lands, etc., under control of Governor.
No grant shall be valid or effectual in law to pass any estate or interest in (i) any lands unappropriated or belonging to the Commonwealth, which embrace the old magazine at Westham, or any stone quarry now worked by the Commonwealth, or any lands which are within a mile of such magazine, or any such quarry; (ii) any ungranted beds of bays, rivers, creeks and the shores of the sea under § 28.2-1200; (iii) any natural oyster bed, rock, or shoal, whether such bed, rock, or shoal shall ebb bare or not; (iv) any islands created in the navigable waters of the Commonwealth through the instrumentality of dredging or filling operations; (v) any islands which rise from any lands which are property of the Commonwealth under § 28.2-1201; or (vi) any ungranted shores of the sea, marsh or meadowlands as defined in § 28.2-1500. Every such grant for any such lands, islands, bed, rock, or shoal shall be absolutely void; however, this section shall not be construed to affect the title to grants issued prior to March 15, 1932. Such magazine and every such stone quarry and the lands of the Commonwealth adjacent to or in their neighborhood, shall be under the control of the Governor, who may make such regulations concerning the same as he may deem best for the interests of the Commonwealth.
(Code 1950, § 41-8; 1970, c. 291; 1991, c. 378; 1995, c. 850.)

A commonwealth is no ordinary State. There are protections for the public, and things that Are held in the public trust for the guarantee of access. DO NOT BACK DOWN!
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Old 08-16-2008, 07:34 AM
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Default Re: Tuesday Night at the Fight...Virginia Beach City Council

I wonder how they made out on this issue.
We need to follow these things.
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Old 01-15-2009, 02:29 AM
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Default Re: Tuesday Night at the Fight...Virginia Beach City Council

On Tuesday night Nov. 6th, VCAN and members of the angling public addressed the Virginia Beach City Council over the right to wade fish Lynnhaven Inlet including the Lesner Bridge and the Outer Bar. Although this was a non-agenda item the City was prepared for us with over a dozen uniformed public safety officers that had a prepared position and the support of City Council. Guess that’s what letters, emails, and some press earned us?
Our non-profit’s first speaker was essentially cut short by the City Manager after a brief exchange halfway through the presentation. A public safety law enforcement official spoke using some exaggerated stories and anecdotal data to paint a unrealistic picture of how extremely dangerous it was to be in the waters at Lynnhaven Inlet. Some City Council members concurred and spoke of their knowledge of how deadly these waters are.
VCAN identified the points that our outdoor user group is uniquely different vs. the general public and that we have safely wade fished the Lynnhaven for many years. If wade fishing the Lynnhaven were really so dangerous, then they would be fishing us wade fishermen out of water every fall striper season. Others in support of wade fishing the Lynnhaven also expressed similar positions including presenting some of the gear we use in pursuit of our passion.
The one bright spot in the whole ordeal was the fact that some 15 wade fishing supporters and the dozen plus City public safety officers held an impromptu meeting after Council adjourned. The post-Council meeting was an open dialog that identified that we may be able to reach a potential compromise which could keep us legally wade fishing while addressing their concern for the general public’s safety. Will see?

Plan now is to address City public safety staff and go from there. I’d like to thank everyone who wrote letters and emails to City Council and especially those who attended the City Council meeting.

My many thanks,

Mark
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Old 01-15-2009, 02:31 AM
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Default Re: Tuesday Night at the Fight...Virginia Beach City Council

December 4, 2007


The Honorable Mayor Meyera E. Oberndorf
City of Virginia Beach
2401 Courthouse Driv
City Hall, Building #1
Municipal Center
Virginia Beach, Virginia 23456

RE: Wade Fishing Lynnhaven Inlet

Mayor Oberndorf,



Thank you for the previous opportunity to address the Virginia Beach City Council regarding the legal and safe wade fishing of Lynnhaven Inlet. Our public access non-profit has reviewed the City of Virginia Beach Public Safety message on the water conditions at Lynnhaven Inlet (attached).
The information provided on the current speed at Lynnhaven Inlet is incorrect. The stated current of six (6) knots by Virginia Beach Marine Patrol was measured improperly by boat. True and accurate current measurements are made either using a neutrally buoyant object and/or a current meter. The National Oceanographic & Atmospheric Association (NOAA) predicts the currents at Lynnhaven Inlet Bridge at most as an average speed of 1.8 knots with a maximum current of approximately 2.5 knots. The NOAA current data is obviously far less then the incorrectly City measured current speed for the Lynnhaven. If the Lynnhaven currents were actually the purported 6 knots, then they would be some of the strongest in the world similar to those in the Straits of Gibraltar.
The second public safety statement of boat wake is also incorrect as I myself, along with many others, have personally wade fished the Lynnhaven including the Lesner and boat wake is not remotely an issue. The only real problem with the boat traffic is in having to clear your line or wait to cast until the boats pass safely through the channel. We recognize and respect the rights of the boaters to safely navigate the channel first and our right to wade fish second.



Lastly, the sad historical public safety reference to those that either drown and/or were supposedly rescued from the Lynnhaven is a gross exaggeration. Those twenty three cited incidents from 1960 are just that antiquated historical accidents. No real City records exist that document the drowning or rescue of wade fishermen from the Lynnhaven ever, let alone in the last twenty to thirty years.
All this inaccurate information misrepresents the public safety risk associated with the waters of the Lynnhaven. Wade fishing the Lynnhaven is safe as it has been for the last two hundred years. Given the Public Trust Doctrine and prescriptive easements, wade fishing the Lynnhaven is also legal. Hence, the continued random enforcement of City code against wade fishing is wrong and the issuance of any citation or ticket for those wade fishing needs to stop.
Once again another fall speckled trout and striped bass run is about done for those of us in waders. We have safely wade fished the Lynnhaven once again and should we not, then shame on us.
Virginia Coastal Access Now, its members, and the recreational angling community looks forward to working with you to defending real and full public access to the Lynnhaven.


Sincerely,


Mark Feltner, President

Virginia Coastal Access Now
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Old 01-15-2009, 02:38 AM
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Default Re: Tuesday Night at the Fight...Virginia Beach City Council

http://www.vcanaccess.com/content/view/87/57/


VCAN on MD-NC-VA Public Access Issues Public access battles are taking place everywhere and VCAN has not stood silent on those outside Virginia. However, to date, we have limited ourselves to only those in our bordering sister states. Let's say that VCAN is claiming reciprocity!
VCAN has previously commented in 2007 on the Feds proposed changes to public access Assateague Island in Maryland and also North Carolina's Outer Banks.
Most recently VCAN submitted the public comment "workbook" on the on-going Cape Hatteras National Seashore ORV management plan that is being worked out through a Federal negotiated rule making.
Unfortunately, the opposition that is against ORV's and public access does not feel enough has been done so they want to make sure that the process stays on track. Hence, they decided to push the issue by going back to court with http://www.islandfreepress.org/2008A...njunction.html
While that is not enough of an attack on public access, the residents at the North end of NC want to shut the public out or at a minimum restrict access to "their beach" ...
https://verify1.newsbank.com/cgi-bin...ECDB/ec_signin
Article archived
Residents: Restrict access to beaches
Author: JOHN HENDERSON Staff Writer
[email protected]


Residents of Currituck's northern beaches believe one way to reduce vehicular traffic on the beaches would be to limit the number of out-of-county visitors during the summer months. That's why a group of North Swan Beach property owners are proposing the county begin issuing passes to motorists seeking access to Swan Beach, North Swan Beach and Carova.
Under the proposal, Currituck residents and out-of-county visitors renting beach property would receive passes
Publish Date: February 17, 2008 | Word Count: 802 | Document ID: 4136748



VCAN will continue to protect Virginia's Coast while standing with, up, and for our brethren to the north & south in defense of public access for all!
So please do what you can to help defend public access on all fronts. And, as always, thank you for your continued support of public of public access to Virginia's coast and our non-profit.
Mark
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