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  #1  
Old 10-21-2005, 12:20 PM
TonyDB TonyDB is offline
 
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Default Hull Types - I'm So Confused!!

Boats are such a compromise. I'm sorry to bore you guys with this but, my hope is that by the end of this reasoning exersise, the answer I'm looking for will be readily apparent.

Displacement hulls are rock steady and have been around since the dawn of time. Noah's Ark was supposedly a heavy displacement hull. That's "testament" enough for the sea-worthiness of this hull design. Problem is, they're s-l-o-w because they don't get up on plane. A medium displacement hull, for example, calculates top speeds using the equation 1.34 X the square root of the water line. So a 25 foot medium displacement hull calculates out to a top speed of 5 X 1.34 or 6.7 knots/hr, the proverbial slow boat to China. Using this caculation, for a boat with this hull design to attain speeds of 30 knots, it would have to be 529 feet, not in my budget.

Semi-displacement or semi-planing hulls (depending on whether you're a half-full or half-empty kind of guy) are somewhat of a compromise within a compromise, not quite as stable as a displacement but you do pick up some speed...same boat of 25' now can accept a top spead of about 15 knots/hour, still in no ones book a speed-demon.

Then there's the planing hulls, the moderate-V and deep-V. These terms are menat to convey the amount of "V" (angle) at the transom. Typically, a moderate V will have no more than 15? of V, whereas a deep V, is between 20-24?. Those inbetween can go either way, depending on how the designer feels about classifying his design. The good news is that they are fast. Some 30 footers will run at speeds in excess of 50 knots/hr. The bad news is that they use a lot more fuel, they don't like going slow (the proverbial "wet ride"), and their manners in ruff seas are the worst.

OK, so the Admiral and I are looking for a seaworthy 23-29 foot cruising/fishing boat that will do at least 30 knots.

Sh$t, I'm sure the answer is in here somewhere. Help, I'm drowning.
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  #2  
Old 10-21-2005, 12:55 PM
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Default Re: Hull Types - I'm So Confused!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDB
looking for a seaworthy 23-29 foot cruising/fishing boat that will do at least 30 knots.
A planing hull is the only one you mentioned that is capable of a 30kt cruise. What other choices do you have if that's important to you? Or am I missing something? I'm just learning about this, so I'm just asking.

This is kind of what I've gathered so far,,, the deep V will handle chop a lot better with less pounding, but rocks a lot more at drift. Either way it's a trade off. Other than the degree of deadrise at the bow, you also have to look at stern deadrise, beam, chine type, center of gravity, and overall weight.

It seems to me that if I were in the market, I'd prefer something that is going to be more steady at slow speeds/drift for fishing or sitting on the hook, and sacrifice a little on the top speed ride. Maybe a heavy, modified V with decent dead rise at the bow, low deadrise at the stern, fairly hard chine, low center of gravity and as wide a beam as I could find.
Seems like one put together like that wouldn't pound too bad, and yet be fairly stable at drift or anchor.

You've already done a lot of research and I'm sure you already know all this, just kind of thinking aloud here. Am I on track so far? You're still looking at pilot house setups, right?
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  #3  
Old 10-21-2005, 01:56 PM
TonyDB TonyDB is offline
 
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Bait, your right, it is the obvious choice and as such, I've been looking at Steiger, Judge, Maycraft, C-Hawk, and Parker in the pilot house design (so at least we can stay dry and warm), just to name a few.

Bait, you hit the nail on the head when you said..


Quote:
A planing hull is the only one you mentioned that is capable of a 30kt cruise. What other choices do you have if that's important to you?
I guess what I'm not sure about is whether I really need that level of speed and should I sacrifice speed for additional seaworthiness. After all, I will be retired and I shouldn't be in any hurry. Also, my wife (the Admiral) is not a go-fast type. Whereas, I am, at least now. Fast cars and fast wom....strike that thought, my wife sometimes reads these threads. Anyway, I'm trying to convince myself that high speeds should not be a requirement.

So I've decided to look at a few displacement hulls. I came across this boat builder in the next town over, Biddeford ME, that builds a nice reasonably priced 26 footer in the medium displacement caterory. I've made arrangements to take a look at them this Saturday.

http://www.marinemart.com/general.html

The real answer, I hope, will become evident when I begin sea-trials next year.
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Old 10-21-2005, 02:03 PM
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Semi-v's moderate-V and deep-V. All can go over 30kts. Mostly all your offshore racing boats are deep-V's
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  #5  
Old 10-21-2005, 02:19 PM
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I try to stay away from these questions, because advising someone on a boat is like advising someone on a wife.... it all depends on what your looking for????? do you want comfort???? do you want speed?????? do you want something that will be faithfull year after year...or do you want beauty,as my old pappy used to say, a pretty boat is like a pretty girl...not always a good deal!!!!

My personal preferance is a mod V,it gives you a little bit of everything...but what do I know I've had the same boat since 1979!
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  #6  
Old 10-21-2005, 02:34 PM
TonyDB TonyDB is offline
 
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Roc, you're so wise!!!

Quote:
I try to stay away from these questions, because advising someone on a boat is like advising someone on a wife.... it all depends on what your looking for????? do you want comfort???? do you want speed??????
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  #7  
Old 10-21-2005, 09:47 PM
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DB I'm not advising you. I'm just saying that type of boat can do 30knts. And there are others.
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  #8  
Old 10-22-2005, 09:36 AM
rogerstg rogerstg is offline
 
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Default Re: Hull Types - I'm So Confused!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDB
OK, so the Admiral and I are looking for a seaworthy 23-29 foot cruising/fishing boat that will do at least 30 knots.

Sh$t, I'm sure the answer is in here somewhere. Help, I'm drowning.
While no one can tell you what to get, we can help you to narrow things down.

First, forget that romantic notion of stable displacement hulls like the ark. It's just adding to your confusion. Unless full of cargo they rock and roll like crazy. The good news is that none of the boats you're looking at are really displacement hulls like this.

Those semi displacement/planing designs are basically lower powered planing hulls designed to give a good ride at lower speeds.

The best selection for you, as you've noted, is based on compromises. The key willl be where and how you mostly intend to use the boat. Inshore or offshore? Drifting for fluke or trolling for tuna? Give us more of that info and we can discuss how your choices will be affected.

Also, what is your and your wife's prior boat owning experience? That's probably the biggest factor.

FWIW, the boat that is perfect for me is my 1979 20' Seacraft MA. It took me about 5 years of on and off thinking about it and research to decide. All the while, having another boat helped identify shortcomings and other issues that I wanted addressed in my next purchase.
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  #9  
Old 10-24-2005, 08:04 AM
TonyDB TonyDB is offline
 
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Thanks to all who have weighed in on this.

Roger, just to bring you up to speed, no pun intended, I've done most of my boating on lakes. My brother and I had various aluminum and wooden runabouts starting when we were about 12 years old. 8 years ago my wife and I purchased a home on the ocean in southern Maine. Seven years ago we purchased an 18' Searay bow rider that's a good Saco river boat, and a fair-weather ocean runner. We slip it 2 miles up river. I have done my best to convert it to a make-do fishing boat adding rodholders and down-riggers. Because it is such a small boat we don't venture more than about 5 miles off-shore or more than 15 miles south or north of the river mouth.

We will be retired when we eventually do purchase our next boat (20 months). We would continue to use the boat, as we do now with added coastal cruising distances of 50-100 miles (sight-seeing) and off-shore capabilities of about 20-30 miles (possibly tuna fising, definately haddock and cod).

Most tell us that for coastal cruising in comfort of 100 miles or more, you want at least a 26 footer. However, I would like to keep the boat as small as possible to cut down on expenses and maintanence time. The shortest boat I'm considering is the Steigercraft new 21 foot deep V. This boat looks and feels bigger than stated. I expect that's because it has a an 8'6" beam and weighs in over 4,000 lbs. Powered with a single 225 Zuke 4-s, this boat sells for about 40 grand, less electronics, and tops out just shy of 50 mph. A vey nice boat at a great cost. But maybe not the boat for us.

The extreme from the Steigercraft is the General Marine boat I looked at this weekend. It's a semi-displacement full keeled 26 footer, 9'6" beam, weighing in a a whopping 7500 lbs. This semi-custom down-east cruiser is Niiiiice and set up for both coastal cruising and hard fishing. With a 210 HP inboard the builder reports a top speed of 29 knots and will take most seas at 20 knots in comfort. With interior teak and enclosed head, this boat is twice the boat the Stiegercraft is but at more than twice the price, $105,000 powered, it should be. Considering that it's a 26 foot semi-custom made boat, that's not bad. He just sold a 3 year old version of this boat with full electronics for $80,000. Something I would consider if available at our time of need.

BTW, those CC guys should check out General Marines 20 and 22 footers. Pretty close to Contendner and Mckee craftmanship but at 1/2- 3/4 the price. The builder mentioned that they're gearing up for a much larger CC, similar to Jupiters 37 foot behemoth. And for those with bigger sights for a cabin, General Marine has a new 36 foot mold and will be completely tooled to produce these babies in 3-4 months.

Well the wife and I will be going to the Boston Boat show in Feb. to continue our hunt for the perfect boat for us. I know you're out there. The General Marine 26 footer (they also offer a 24 footer but I don't think it's quite the boat the 26 footer is) is very close.
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  #10  
Old 10-24-2005, 09:38 AM
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Tony,

when you come up here to the boat show in February, we'll have to get together..... I'm only 15 minutes from Boston, Absolute Ahunie works there everyday.....
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  #11  
Old 10-24-2005, 09:55 AM
TonyDB TonyDB is offline
 
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Sounds good Roc, I would like that very much. Perhaps we could all do dinner as well. I'll PM you as the show gets closer.
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  #12  
Old 10-24-2005, 11:03 AM
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I' figured we'd all go to dinner,,have some laughes and go to the show. Ter, knows ALL the best places!
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Old 10-26-2005, 05:50 PM
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whats MA. ? 1979 20' Seacraft MA. I know Seacrafts.
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  #14  
Old 10-27-2005, 09:42 AM
rogerstg rogerstg is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sea sea rider
whats MA. ? 1979 20' Seacraft MA. I know Seacrafts.
But how well do you know SeaCrafts? ;)

MA = Master Angler

It's configuration includes a taller gunwhale cap than "normal."
Thats the story in '78~'80 with Potter hulls. The newer version of the MA produced by Tracker lacks this feature and is more like the SF series of the Potter era. You can learn more at classicseacraft.com.



The registration numbers are on the taller section to which I referred.
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  #15  
Old 10-27-2005, 10:05 AM
rogerstg rogerstg is offline
 
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Tony,
My experience with the 26 Steigercraft is that they pound a bit in a chop and are squirrely in a following sea. Another boat worth looking at is an Osprey. There is lots of comfortable living space in the cabin on the same level as the cockpit. With dual controls it's easy to fish from the cockpit as well. They seem to ride better than the steigers in a chop and following sea.
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