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  #1  
Old 12-31-2009, 07:22 AM
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Default Plug Heater

I'm in the process of biulding a plug heater. I'm doing this for 2 reasons. One is to heat plugs before Etex finish to make the epoxy floww esier(more fluid/less viscosity) The other reason I found may be even more important. With the paints used(waterbase) acrylics and createx they require heat to do a final cure on the paint. This is the main reason for auto painter heating parts. After some research I found that none of these water based acrylics ever fully cures unless you put heat to it, maybe around 15 to 30 min. at around 150 degrees. You need heat to cross-link the molecular bonds in the polymer base, which is how the acrylic permanently sets and becomes waterproof. This info come directly from a paint supplier and maker.

What I'm using is a couple old toaster ovens I have because they have a dehydrate and defrost setting. This setting is set for 150 and 165 degress, I'm linking the 2 together into 1 box to get a larger area. Also using heat difussers around elements so not to heat plug near it too much.

I figured is not too much to do as I heat the plugs up anways before applying the finish
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  #2  
Old 01-09-2010, 04:49 AM
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Default Re: Plug Heating Delta Creamacoat paint thinning

This is also directly from Createx's website regarding curing:

Colors cure with the assistance of heat after drying. The use of heat to cure colors is one of the main differences between Createx Airbrush Colors and Wicked & Auto Air Colors which cure to a much stronger film with air drying alone (referred to as self-cross linking).

If you are using Craetex then you should refer to their PDF file regarding application-see the curing section

This does not regard heat but does refer to Delta Creamacoat thinning for spraying:
Q: Can I use Delta Ceramcoat® Acrylic Paint in a watercolor method or with an airbrush?

Yes. When the acrylic paints are thinned with Delta Ceramcoat® Acrylic Thinner, it reduces the paints to a proper consistency for watercolor and airbrushing techniques. When the acrylic paints are dry, they cannot be "lifted" like watercolors. Thinning acrylics with water causes them to lose their vivid color and appear flat after drying. With airbrushing, too much water can cause the acrylics to lose their bonding and covering ability. Mix equal parts of Delta Acrylic Thinner & Ceramcoat Acrylic Paint for use in an airbrush. Add additional Thinner until desired consistency is achieved. Clean Airbrush following the manufacture's directions.
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Old 01-09-2010, 09:46 PM
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Default Re: Plug Heater

must be why my paint jobs look like @#%^... I only use water to thin my paint... and do not heat set.....I'm glad the fish dont mind...
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Old 01-09-2010, 11:25 PM
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Default Re: Plug Heater

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Originally Posted by Roccus View Post
must be why my paint jobs look like @#%^... I only use water to thin my paint... and do not heat set.....I'm glad the fish dont mind...
I didn't say that. I'm just putting up what I was told by paint maker and supplier. If you where to rub your plug before finish or scratch coat with a damp rag most of the paint will come off. If you heat/warm your plug before or while apllying finish coat then you are essentially curing the paint. I will say that I noticed when I cut with water that the paint had a matte finish(mostly black or dark colors), it's the scratch and or etex/epoxy that makes it go boom and shine.

The part about thinning came directly from Delta's website, part of it is most likely job security(sell more sh..) but I know part of it stands true.



Oh and I still say I never read the CCBC collectors book. This is just one of the several articles I read which is straight from Anita Rolfe(maiden name Anita Dills), the daughter of Gordon S. Dills and her grandfather was Henry S. Dills(founder) http://www.antiquefishinglures.com/creekchubhistory.htm
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Old 01-10-2010, 10:35 AM
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Default Re: Plug Heater

Anita Dills was a hottie. Back row left. Her sister Eleanor wasnt too shaby neither.
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Old 01-10-2010, 10:59 PM
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Default Re: Plug Heater

I've dropped 'em, kicked 'em and fished 'em with out anything but the paint.. they held up pretty darn good..it never ceases to amaze me how people do a little reading and have little practical experience and know it all .... too damn many experts around here for me.....time to chill for a spell....
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:19 AM
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Default Re: Plug Heater

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Originally Posted by Roccus View Post
I've dropped 'em, kicked 'em and fished 'em with out anything but the paint.. they held up pretty darn good..it never ceases to amaze me how people do a little reading and have little practical experience and know it all .... too damn many experts around here for me.....time to chill for a spell....
I never ment for this to become any sort of attack. I have actually on many numerous times complimented you on yourplugs, paint and finish. I also regard your information highly. I have never attacked your work or information like you are doing to me. I have always looked at my experiance in this way, that I will never stop learning and that what I do is not always the best. The day I think that my way is it and the best might as well be the day I die. All I wanted to do was put up some of my findings, what I do and why.

As far as the information I have done alot of reading, moderate work on the plugs and speaking to people in the paint industry about it. I started to justify by the info on the folks I have spoken to and my over 25 yrs woodwork experiance with but I'm not going there. I do apologize for offending you. There are three ways I learn things one is by reading about it, two is by speaking to people about it and three is actual hands on. Years ago I mainly relied on the last 2 but found there is much to learn about things by reading, as I like to go past just building. I also like to learn about the people, history and why something works-I have always been that way.

I know I have a ton to learn, I always will. I just thought these forums were partly to discuss your findings and such. Again I do apologize and I will stop posting things I learn and information I receive as I don't won't to offend anyone anymore. The reason I'm here is to learnand hopfully meet people not to argue.
The only reason I ever even started looking into the paint/heat issue is because after float testing some painted plugs I was wiping them down and paint started to come off. This was after 4 or more days of drying.

All I can say is I'm not the only one that feels this way about heat setting the paint. Some of this info is from an experianced builder not a greenhorn like myself. This may also refer mainly to Createx but I have also found this with other acrylics.
I just thought some folks would find the info useful or interesting
Again I'm sorry
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:07 AM
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Default Re: Plug Heater

Most of the information I posted in the first 2 or so posts came directly from the manufacturer or their website. The info about heat also came from the manufacturer,other plug builders, local/national paint supplier and my findings. I did not just pull this info out of my a..
I do apologize(I'm Sorry) in one of my posts I say you. I did not mean "you as in Roccus". I should have worded it differently, I ment you as a general term if that makes sense.
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:19 AM
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Default Re: Plug Heater

I dry each coat with a hair dryer. Been working great for me.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:24 PM
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Default Re: Plug Heater

Sudsy if you read this:
I have been using your sealing method as we spoke about it. Thank you

I know before applying sealer you heat plug, well or did as it opens the pores and sealer flows easier. But do you also heat prior to finish coat and if so do you use a scratch coat(lacquer, etex spray or other)? Just want to make sure I have all my ducks in a row. Oh yeah do you get droppers locally or order online. I'm having problems finding them locally, well the cheap disposable ones anyway. I have a few more expensive ones(Jacquard's) I've been using over. Actually I need to check with our paint/auto body supplier as they may carry, actually I'm pretty sure they do.

Funny you mention the hair dryer as one manufacturer's site mentions using a heat gun or hair dryer between coats to help cure paint. As long as it's heat and the air is moving-seems to do it to one extent or another. It's just many of use are curing the paint with heat and did not even know it.
I just figured I would go a step more and use the toaster ovens as I have them, they have dehydrate setting which uses low heat and fan. This also warms the plug and make finish flow much smoother-kinda killing two birds with one stone.
It's the same as apply acrylics to fabric, heat must be used to cure and set paint otherwise it will wash out. I aint making this up.

Added:One thing that also made me wonder about heat is training I received starting 10 or 15 yrs ago with architectural coatings which many are acrylic based/fortified along with concrete fortifiers. The heat generated from the curing concrete bonds the polymers and makes concrete and the coatings stronger along with better adhesion
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Old 01-11-2010, 08:44 PM
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Default Re: Plug Heater

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseystriper View Post
do you also heat prior to finish coat and if so do you use a scratch coat(lacquer, etex spray or other)?

No and no

Oh yeah do you get droppers locally or order online. I'm having problems finding them locally, well the cheap disposable ones anyway.

Never bought em, I have friends

Funny you mention the hair dryer as one manufacturer's site mentions using a heat gun or hair dryer between coats to help cure paint. As long as it's heat and the air is moving-seems to do it to one extent or another. It's just many of use are curing the paint with heat and did not even know it.
I just figured I would go a step more and use the toaster ovens as I have them, they have dehydrate setting which uses low heat and fan. This also warms the plug and make finish flow much smoother-kinda killing two birds with one stone.

Dehydrate setting?? Sounds interesting and worth some experimenting
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Old 01-12-2010, 08:18 AM
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Default Re: Plug Heater

Dehydrate setting?? Sounds interesting and worth some experimenting

Sudsy I will check with my brother in-law. We bought him a new toaster oven for xmas. I think his old one is the same as one of mine. For a few years we all bought Delonghis(sp?) which have the dehydrate setting. They used to make good products but since they started selling to w..mart and such their quality stinks. They usually last just past the warranty.
If he still has it and it has that setting I can send it to you. I just bought an Oster to replace my Delonghi(have 2 old ones now) the Oster has Dehydrate and Defrost, only difference is 10 degrees. Best thing is that it can also be set as low as 150 along with fan bake. I like the others better though as the dehydrate is even abit lower on them. I usually put a difuser(tin foil) over the elements and in front of fan as direct air blowing on things gets hot. Try it in a hot sauna sometime, when sitting there blow on your arm- It will feel like a torch

You can test it on the plugs you make me.
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:52 PM
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Default Re: Plug Heater

Sudsy I forgot to post this but my brother in-law had alraedy tossed his old T-Oven.
Talking to some more folks and one yesterday I find that many are aware of the need to heat acrylics to totally cure. Futher talks has made me come to believe that a hair dryer is not going to totally cure the paint. Being used between coats is a bonus though and if you get a good temp on the plug it should be close to being cured-better than nothing.
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Old 01-29-2010, 05:05 PM
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Default Re: Plug Heater

Back to the heat gun then
Thanks
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Old 01-30-2010, 01:58 PM
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Default Re: Plug Heater

A bonus I found w/ totally curing is when or if I'm painting spots on plug. If I cure the paint on plug before painting spots then if I make a mistake I can wipe off spot with damp rag not effecting the paint underneath. I will also many times spray a scratch coat before spots so i can also wipe off if I dont like. I can still wipe off even if spot has dried. Don't have all the pics but I did spots on top plug 3 times before I thought they were somewhat acceptable. Still not totally happy with but they will do-it's just a plug
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