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  #1  
Old 08-10-2008, 08:02 AM
Mr.Grumpy Mr.Grumpy is offline
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Default Is fishing Plum Island like fishing the canal? (jig question)

I'm almost afraid to ask any more questions but, here goes. I have been doing a lot of reading about surf casting and, specifically casting heavy weights, and then I randomly came across an article about fishing the canal on another forum. It seems to me that there are a lot of similarities described in the conditions of the canal and the river side of Plum Island. Do any of you veterans think that this is so?

Now, I ask this because when I have been using a bucktail jig or a jig-headed Sluggo I have thrown the lure past where I wanted to "fish" and retrieved it back through the target area. The article I read seemed to be suggesting that jig should be thrown up-current of the target area and let the current carry it through. Is this right?

(Yes, this is a very basic question and no, I'm not joking. To me it IS rocket science).
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  #2  
Old 08-11-2008, 09:28 AM
spike10 spike10 is offline
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Default Re: Is fishing Plum Island like fishing the canal? (jig question)

Hey Grumpy,

Don't worry about asking questions, there are a lot of guys here who want to help you. I think there are a couple of problems, at least from my perspective.

Instead of starting a new thread every time you have a question why don't you just post in one "all things grumpy" post, people will come back. Also it seems that often times you don't read or pay attention to the replies that you do get. ie check back to one of your deer island post re: throwing your sluggo.

I have not fished the canal, but from all that i have read it is very much its own animal. But basic techniques are the same everywhere. My thoughts on your question are that you want as natural presentation as possible. Very rarely do bait fish swim against the current in the fast moving waters that you should be fishing.

Tight lines
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Old 08-11-2008, 09:32 AM
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Default Re: Is fishing Plum Island like fishing the canal? (jig question)

AFAIK, PI is not rocky like the canal. You don't snag everything like crazy because it's mostly a mud bottom.

I've only gone once w/ a friend who had a boat and he was running 12# line w/ no leader tossing small 7" unweighted sluggos and still managed to land a 38" fish...try that in the canal and you'd be cut off in seconds assuming you can get the 7" sluggo deep enough :-P
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Old 08-11-2008, 10:09 AM
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Default Re: Is fishing Plum Island like fishing the canal? (jig question)

If you wanna see stupid questions click on my profile and look at my post history
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  #5  
Old 08-11-2008, 11:51 AM
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Default Re: Is fishing Plum Island like fishing the canal? (jig question)

Apples and oranges, eels and squid... rocks and sand...

Two entirely different animals.... for one, the CCC connects two bay systems, one, warm water,the other cold water, the tides are screwy there and so are the fish that inhabit it....when the tide runs in the canal, it runs hard, REAL hard, when it sleeps, the nap is brief... I stopped the lunacy of it in the late '70s...

The Mac is my home, I know every inch of it intimately, every rock( and there are lots of them!), every mussel shoal, every hole, every bend and turn.... I know what each tide brings, what each moon brings and how each tidal cycle will effect the fish, I know what each wind shift will do to the fish and where they will go... it's been a lifetime of learning and I'm not dead yet....

A jig head and sluggo is a "must have" in the Mack, there are places where it will be the only devise you will reach the fish with( other than a eels skin rig or wire line trolled from a boat), in these spots, heavy line is a must, the mussel shoal drops over the edge of the channel to 25' of water ... if your not armed for it, any fish making the drop off will be lost to a cut line...the whole river is not mud, most of it is sand and rock with mussels shoals and clam flats interspersed, upriver, it is wider and more tranquil, still rocky, still sandy just slower moving with the real mud bottom being found in the many coves and creeks that feed the estruary...

To fish a jig of any type over deeper, faster running water, your approach will depend on what it takes to make the bottom, in some areas, the strike zone may be short, maybe only 25', beyond that, a fishless desert, in these places, an upstream cast is desirable to allow the "bait" to tumble in the hole, but, you must have it working when it arrives on target,in other places, a fan cast and "count down" is in order, as you allow the jig to reach the bottom before starting your retrieve, it all depends on lure size, tidal flow and water depth... these things must be learned by trial and error, sorry, there just is no short cut...

For now, my recommendation to you ,is to stick to the shallows under the cover of darkness, fish cut bait or worms where practical, plug ( or jig) when you feel the need, August can be a tough month, but once September rolls around and the fish are stoking their ovens for the return trip, you'll feel like a king, fish will seem to be everywhere and will eat any offering you offer up... hang in there and keep learning!
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Old 08-11-2008, 01:21 PM
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Default Re: Is fishing Plum Island like fishing the canal? (jig question)

Roccus: any comments on where fishing from the shore (non-boat) is rocky? It didn't look anything like the Ditch from what I saw by boat :-)
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Old 08-11-2008, 01:48 PM
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Default Re: Is fishing Plum Island like fishing the canal? (jig question)

The whole damn river is rocks...... badgers and half tide to name a few...

the whole bottom at the badgers is broken mussel shoal and rocks all the way to the elbow...

Coffin point is a mass of broken ledge shoal...with a scuttled coal barge thrown in for good measure...


the bottom all along newbury port is solid ledge.. the shore line along cashmanpark is all cobblestone and sand... above that, ledge and boulders line the bank all the way to amesbury, ledge and bolders line the bottom and eat jigs like a child eats candy... drive up the middle of the river under the chain bridge below half tide... just keep Tow boat on speed dial...

The river extends way beyond Joppa,which is where you ( and everyone else that visits the river) fished and even there, there are old dike ruins and individual small piles of rocks.... mud habitat actualy makes up a very small part of the river... no place on earth is like the cape cod canal... but the two should never be mentioned in the same breath.... apples and oranges...
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Old 08-11-2008, 04:20 PM
Mr.Grumpy Mr.Grumpy is offline
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Default Re: Is fishing Plum Island like fishing the canal? (jig question)

Quote:
Originally Posted by spike10 View Post
Hey Grumpy,

..... it seems that often times you don't read or pay attention to the replies that you do get. ie check back to one of your deer island post re: throwing your sluggo......
Heck, I read it printed it out and carry it around with me. It just seemed.... different. Somehow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roccus
Two entirely different animals.... for one, the CCC connects two bay systems, one, warm water,the other cold water, the tides are screwy there and so are the fish that inhabit it....when the tide runs in the canal, it runs hard, REAL hard, when it sleeps, the nap is brief... I stopped the lunacy of it in the late '70s...
I think that it was the way they were talking about the current rushing in and out that made me think that they were similar. That's as deep as I thought into it.

I'm glad that I asked the question though. I never thought of the bottom being any thing BUT sand and mud. I never realized how rocky it was.
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Old 08-11-2008, 04:33 PM
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Default Re: Is fishing Plum Island like fishing the canal? (jig question)

Hey I like that idea spike.
"all things grumpy"

Ask away grump.
Heed Roccus' advice and recommendations.
It takes time to put it together.
You will come back to this thread again.
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Old 08-11-2008, 05:17 PM
spike10 spike10 is offline
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Default Re: Is fishing Plum Island like fishing the canal? (jig question)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Grumpy
Heck, I read it printed it out and carry it around with me. It just seemed.... different. Somehow.
Excellent. Remember no one said this is going to be easy, it can be very frustrating and we've all been where you are. Roc gave some good advice, focus your efforts and keep learning and the details are important (my hook up rate increased dramatically after i quit smoking and started cleaning my hands with a mackeral)

Keep at it, get your gear in order, keep a log and you will have a good September.

Hey Roc, if you only had one month to fish, June or September?
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Old 08-12-2008, 07:54 AM
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Default Re: Is fishing Plum Island like fishing the canal? (jig question)

Quote:
Originally Posted by spike10 View Post

Hey Roc, if you only had one month to fish, June or September?

Wow, I had to think long and hard about that one.. real long....real hard!

June is the start of it all, lots of big fish, all in the river no traveling, the weather is fairly dependable and the fish are always there, and some real big ones at that..but the crowds are there as well...

September.. I rarely fish the river after August 1st, from 8/1 on unless there are extenuating circumstances, I fish the beach, unless ,the ocean says otherwise, September line storms and offshore swells can ruin beach fishing for days, rarely if ever do I have any company out front and the fishing can be outstanding, the main difference between June and September is,In September, I can blitz big fish one night until I just get tired of it, return the next night to a placid sea and no fish, In June, chances are those fish will continue doing "what they are doing" until that particular tide runs to day break, so the numbers tend to be more steady,June fish can be finicky and not eat until they adjust to the salinity in the river,September fish eat like it's the last supper, all that said, size wise it's a draw, I've taken two "50's" in June and two in September, September spells the nearing of the end of the season for us so some sadness comes with it, but my September numbers are double what my June numbers usually are... I've had plenty tough Junes, rarely a tough September, the fish are always there, if, I can get to them....

All things being equal... I'll take September....The fishing can be fast, the crowds are sparse and the fish always eat, if the ocean is too kicked up to use the boat,I can fish the surf ....the only thing that might be limited is my access to some spots that are off limits from the shore bound angler for one reason or another....
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Old 08-13-2008, 12:30 PM
spike10 spike10 is offline
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Default Re: Is fishing Plum Island like fishing the canal? (jig question)

Thanks for the thoughtful answer always appreciate your insight. I asked because I couldn’t answer it myself.

I would lean towards June but probably only because that is when I am more focused and prepared. May is tune up, hit June hard and in the last couple of years July has been pretty good so it has been a bit of a blur. Fishing the river also suits my style since I fish alone, like small water, dark and quiet. I’ve always fished less in the fall and it has seemed so hit or miss, more miss since I have less experience, but some of the hits have been big.

This year is going to be different as I have let work and family stuff get in the way of my fishing this spring/summer. I am now gearing up for a big September make up for the time i've missed on the water and hopefully a shot up the learning curve.

Tight lines
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