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  #16  
Old 11-07-2009, 05:00 PM
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Default Re: Penn 704z

Heard the same thing about powdercoat, chips easy. I used RUST-OLEUM in the can, Hammered finish and seems to be fine. Not too crazy about HT-100 drag. Will replace w/ carbontex from smoothdrag over the winter.
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  #17  
Old 11-07-2009, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: Penn 704z

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Originally Posted by rjcappy View Post
Heard the same thing about powdercoat, chips easy. I used RUST-OLEUM in the can, Hammered finish and seems to be fine. Not too crazy about HT-100 drag. Will replace w/ carbontex from smoothdrag over the winter.
I replaced my washers with some I picked up at a local tackle/reel shop. I was surprised that they were carbon fiber. I ended up using washers from a conventional as they were a tad stronger and reinforced with teflon.(yes they still fit) You can also eliminate the teflon washer(56t-704) in the spool for another drag washer. Doing so will give you a stronger drag enabling you to use less tension on the knob giving it more life and making it smoother. Consider switching to the new style drag knob as it has a gasket to prevent water intrusion. part # 52n-750 2004 Power Drag Knob with Seal. If wanted I have been told by a reel builder that the 60-710 teflon washer can also be repalced with a drag washer. I'm leaving mine as it is somewhat exposed to sand/water. I will be milling a washer out of oil impregnated Delrin or teflon with tighter tolerances to help keep out water.
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  #18  
Old 11-08-2009, 09:23 AM
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Default Re: Penn 704z

What a great idea (jerseystriper) to switch the teflon washer out! Would have never thought of that, although it makes perfect sense. I'm using the new drag knob and it works fine. Now if you should mill some "extra" oil impregnated washers by any chance, i would like to help you get rid of about 6 of them. At my expense of course! Just a thought! Man i love this website!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #19  
Old 11-09-2009, 01:23 PM
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Default Re: Penn 704z

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Well if the Penn bearing is not sealed then you need to know the size of bearing, in mm, Then you have several options where to get your bearings-VXB, Boca, or even through Smooth Drag. Check with Smooth Drag as that is where you should get your Drag Washers from anyway 'Carbontex' they may be the same as the newer Penn Carbon Fiber drag washers but not sure. With the bearing I'm pretty sure the new old stock Penn bearing for the 704 is closed but not sure of the rating.(I can buy a 1/2 to a full sleeve of ten bearings for what they charge though) It should not really matter what if any ABEC rating the bearing has as it's not high speed but a ABEC 3,5 or 7 rating would be fine. I only see 1 bearing on my parts schematic. I need to check inside reel as I'm surprised that I don't see a bushng or bearing for the rear of the Pinion Gear.

I would also install a manual bail kit if I was you, but I'm not so your choice.
What a bonehead I am. Of course there are busings, there has to be(or bearings) Actually after checking a parts list and different schematic there should be 4 (atleast), I wonder if these can be replace w/bearings. I know on my Abu I replaced a few bushings w/bearings. The bushings are included in the housing on the schematic. Cappy did you also replace your bushings? I'm going to mic them up and see if I can replace w/bearings. I won't change them over if I feel there is not an advantage though. When measuring I will also order and measure new bushings as there may be wear on the old ones, I will order 2 of 2-704(needed) and 1 of 7-704 (only a buck and change per) just in case the bearings don't work out. the 2 bearings are for the main gear and the single is for the pinion gear(not counting the line roller sleeve/bushing 35a-704) so actually 4 bushings
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  #20  
Old 11-10-2009, 09:21 AM
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Question Re: Penn 704z

Hey Jstriper. I did purchase a pair of bushings for the main shaft,below the pinion gear, but can't figure out how to get the old ones out. The other ones that are by the main gear,handle,are no longer available. Would love to replace those w/ some type of long bearing, or cutting off 3or 4mm off each side to make room for a small bearing on each end, but that will be a challenge. Gonna make that my winter project! Again i gotta figure out how to get that bushing out without wrecking it.
Anybody ever take these things out? Please chime in!
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  #21  
Old 11-10-2009, 12:31 PM
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Default Re: Penn 704z

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Originally Posted by rjcappy View Post
Hey Jstriper. I did purchase a pair of bushings for the main shaft,below the pinion gear, but can't figure out how to get the old ones out. The other ones that are by the main gear,handle,are no longer available. Would love to replace those w/ some type of long bearing, or cutting off 3or 4mm off each side to make room for a small bearing on each end, but that will be a challenge. Gonna make that my winter project! Again i gotta figure out how to get that bushing out without wrecking it. -I will double check as I'm 95% positive I can get these for you.
Anybody ever take these things out? Please chime in! If you want I can walk you threw it on the phone or you could meet me in Fairfield, NJ at the shop and we can do it there.
I'll let you know where to get them or send some to you. When I do my reel I will also tell you the best way to remove the one for pinion. Usually with bushing I will either drill out leaving just a little bushing then pull out( or bend over and remove) or I will drill/tap install bolt then use a puller to remove. For the pinion base one I want to see about maybe fitting bearing there. I have not pulled reel apart yet but will let you know. Maybe this weekend I will open up for cleaning and give you more info. Bushing are pressed in so you usually need some sort of puller or pusher to remove.

As for the washer either teflon or Delrin I'm double checking the properties as Delrin is subject to thermal expansion. I don't think that is a problem in this use but want to make sure. If extra lube is applied then I really doubt there should be a problem as the only spinning stress on that washer is when drag is pulled out and the heat really needs to go over 140 degrees for a very long time(not applicable for this use) or 185 long term for expansion. I'm going to speak to one of out techs or engineers regarding this. The best part about Delrin is the milling/turning capabilities and the water absobtion, Coefficient of Friction and strength
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  #22  
Old 11-11-2009, 09:43 AM
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Thumbs up Re: Penn 704z

Hey jstriper, since i don't have access to a shop i'll love to meet up with you in jersey when you're ready to do yours!
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  #23  
Old 11-11-2009, 04:40 PM
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Default Re: Penn 704z

Bearings instead of a bushing on the Main gear handle and bearings on the pinion gear. That would make the 704 incredibly smooth. Last Weekend I went back to my 704 that I drilled and rebuilt last winter I was amazed at how much lighter my set up was and how smooth the reel was. I guess I just forgot. Bearings in those locations would be insanity. I have another on the bench now that will get a re-build this winter. I may need to look into bearings for those locations.

Do you guys use ceramic bearings or is that over kill
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  #24  
Old 11-11-2009, 08:25 PM
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Default Re: Penn 704z

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Bearings instead of a bushing on the Main gear handle and bearings on the pinion gear. That would make the 704 incredibly smooth. Last Weekend I went back to my 704 that I drilled and rebuilt last winter I was amazed at how much lighter my set up was and how smooth the reel was. I guess I just forgot. Bearings in those locations would be insanity. I have another on the bench now that will get a re-build this winter. I may need to look into bearings for those locations.

Do you guys use ceramic bearings or is that over kill
Well it's not a done deal on the bushing to bearing changeover. There may not be enough clearance to fit a bushing. If there are bearings to fit SS I feel would be more then fine. In a high speed situation then I really like ceramic but since all spots are low speed I will stick with SS plus they may need to be needle anyways. If there is not a bearing to fit then I will look at milling out to fit one or even turning base of pinion on lathe(or both) Another reason I will look at SS is cost as ceramic can cost 4 or 5 times more per. I will post or PM what I find out as I should be breaking down in a few weeks
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  #25  
Old 11-12-2009, 10:45 AM
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Default Re: Penn 704z

100% ceramic bearings are way too expensive, 80-100 bucks! When i replaced my rotor bearing i did put a bearing with ss races, ceramic balls, and rubber shields. It was only 10 bucks!
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  #26  
Old 11-12-2009, 10:08 PM
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Default Re: Penn 704z

http://www.stripers247.com/704Z-705Z.pdf
striperjim posted this for us a while ago

anyway, following your post and have been working on these reels for a while, pretty much the only surf reel for me. the main gear shaft is removable but needs some force to be extracted. clean out the reel thoroughly and apply a fine gear oil, this definitely helps. as for paint, a year ago i repainted my 704s. one with epoxy appliance paint and one with auto and a clear coat. both are showing signs of wear but the epoxy is holding up a little better. a tip before you paint is not to apply too much paint to the base of the spool and the inside of the rotor cup. tolerances arent that tight but this is the place where if you put too much paint, a grain of sand will bind you up something terrible. i also treat all of my parts with an anti corrosive, lock-tite makes a good product for this. then rebuild and pack tight. jerseystriper, what is a part #2 and a part #7 ?
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  #27  
Old 11-13-2009, 04:35 PM
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Default Re: Penn 704z

I believe those were in reference to the bushings. Not listed on the schematics. 2 under the pinion gear, 1 under the main gear.
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  #28  
Old 11-13-2009, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: Penn 704z

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Originally Posted by jdm197 View Post
http://www.stripers247.com/704Z-705Z.pdf
striperjim posted this for us a while ago

anyway, following your post and have been working on these reels for a while, pretty much the only surf reel for me. the main gear shaft is removable but needs some force to be extracted. clean out the reel thoroughly and apply a fine gear oil, this definitely helps. as for paint, a year ago i repainted my 704s. one with epoxy appliance paint and one with auto and a clear coat. both are showing signs of wear but the epoxy is holding up a little better. a tip before you paint is not to apply too much paint to the base of the spool and the inside of the rotor cup. tolerances arent that tight but this is the place where if you put too much paint, a grain of sand will bind you up something terrible. i also treat all of my parts with an anti corrosive, lock-tite makes a good product for this. then rebuild and pack tight. jerseystriper, what is a part #2 and a part #7 ?
Part #2 and #7 are the bushings for main gear and pinion (2-704 and 7-704). If you have been rebuilding these for years I think you would know this, it's also mention in my post a few before this. Certain schematics show this and some dont-The link you posted is of the older schematic which is incomplete, it does not break down all parts. These are also shown on certain parts lists. I would never-I repeat never go through the work of rebuilding one of these and not replace the bushings. To me that is crazy even more so since they are a little more than $1 in cost. To make the reel even smoother I will if at all possible replace these with bearings, even if I need to mill out housing and turn pinion. I will only remove what I would consider a safe amount of material. As for corrosion, parts get treated with Corrosion X where possible and inside the reel will be Corrosin Block or Yamaha marine. I have spoke with a few folks that have 20+ yrs each with reels and one does it for a living to get much of my info. The bearings are not needed but I want to make my reel as smooth as possible like I did to my Abu 6600c. The paint will either be automotive then baked or epoxy appliance by Maytag/Whirlspool's painter(as a friend of mine is NE Serive Manager). As for the Lock-Tite product you refer to I beleive that you may mean anti-sieze which I use all the time, works great for nut's and bolts but nearly as good as treating with Corrosion X.

Below is a schematic that shows 2-704 but does not show 7-704 but trust me, its a part.
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  #29  
Old 11-13-2009, 08:49 PM
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Default Re: Penn 704z

My bad, 2 under main gear. Thanks for the schematic!
Just double checked with Scott's and it seems the have the bushings ( 2-704) back in stock! Gonna pick up a few in case the bearings dont work out.

Last edited by rjcappy; 11-14-2009 at 10:01 AM. Reason: More info
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  #30  
Old 11-16-2009, 01:44 PM
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Default Re: Penn 704z

Got over the fear of cracking the housing, put a little heat on the bushing w/ heat gun and a few taps later it was out. Replaced w/ new one but will replace it w/ a needle bearing, or even a needle clutch one way bearing( hoping this will tighten up my anti-reverse). Main gear bushings will also be replaced w/ flanged bearings( could only find chromed steel material from VXB. Would like to find stainless steel in the future. Will have caliper tomorrow for more precise measurements but right now i got the bushing @ 7mm id, 11mm od, 10mm width on pinion bushing. The flanged bearings @ 7mm id, 11mm od 3mm width. should post next week with results.
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